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rheinwaldner
Posts: 1901
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
Will the Swiss vote for this proposal this time around?

That is not yet decided. Even if the parliament decides to avoid a vote, it is possible (if not likely), that a sufficient number of people (100000) will sign to enforce a popular vote anyway.

The plans already face a stiff headwind among many people here.

As the Swiss requirements are only air defence, I wonder whether there is no other option than to buy new aircraft every 30 years. Why am I asking?

For pure air defence you need much less than e.g. offered by the F-35. In one sense you need primarily a good airframe, that does not break apart after only some thousands flight hours. The 6000 hours of the F/A-18 are a bit disappointing IMO. If the structure would not get so weak after that time, the fighters would be fit for purpose much longer (in an air defence role). I also wonder why the F-5 keeps flying since the seventies, and for the F/A-18 (flying since the nineties) a replacement would be needed much earlier.

Maybe Switzerland should go for a good number of F-16s (either used or refurbished) or think a second time, how far we could get doing an Elbit upgrade with the Tigers.

All these thoughts from the perspective, how to convince a skeptical nation from the needed spendings....
 
angad84
Posts: 2155
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:00 am

Obsolescence management is also a thing. Sometimes it is expensive to sustain an airframe even with lots of fatigue life left.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 4426
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 am

The F/A-18 can have it's life extended through a centre barrel replacement (the centre barrel is the major limiting component on the F/A-18's fatigue life) and structural inspections. A number of F/A-18 users have already done that work; Canada, the USN, the USMC, and Australia have all done centre barrel replacements on a number of F/A-18's.

The process isn't cheap; it's a $2-2.5 million USD per aircraft cost to do so. But it does significantly extend the life of the aircraft.
 
angad84
Posts: 2155
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:09 pm

That's still cheaper than buying an all-new fleet, although like I said, sustainment costs of the entire Legacy Hornet fighter system into the 2020s is a question mark. Maybe if the Swiss went and called dibs on all dead and/or dying Bugs in the world, and primed the electronics/avionics supply chain for the planned life of their Hornet fleet as necessary they might be able to swing it.

An air-defence-only fleet should be quite doable in the budget they want, assuming that it is ONLY basic procurement cost (flyaways, weapons, MILCON and not much else)
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10434
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:23 pm

Something like an FA-50 would be enough for Switzerland.
 
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flyingturtle
Posts: 6590
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:08 pm

How about the F-35B?

We could hide them in all the little valleys we have. :box:

David
 
rheinwaldner
Posts: 1901
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:29 am

ThePointblank wrote:
The F/A-18 can have it's life extended through a centre barrel replacement (the centre barrel is the major limiting component on the F/A-18's fatigue life) and structural inspections. A number of F/A-18 users have already done that work; Canada, the USN, the USMC, and Australia have all done centre barrel replacements on a number of F/A-18's.

The process isn't cheap; it's a $2-2.5 million USD per aircraft cost to do so. But it does significantly extend the life of the aircraft.

So that seems to be right thing to do.

seahawk wrote:
Something like an FA-50 would be enough for Switzerland.

Is it good at all-weather? Is the radar at least similar to what the F/A-18 has? Is it in any meaningful way better than the F-5?
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10434
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:18 am

That is just a question of Avionics installed. The ELTA 2032 should be sufficient and you can surely add an IRST to the frame. If the 2032 seems a bit dated the AESA Elta 2052 is more or less a drop in alternative as Columbian Kfirs show.
 
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Devilfish
Posts: 7990
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:16 pm

seahawk wrote:
The ELTA 2032 should be sufficient and you can surely add an IRST to the frame. If the 2032 seems a bit dated the AESA Elta 2052 is more or less a drop in alternative as Columbian Kfirs show.

Wouldn't KAI's agreement with LM still preclude the use on the FA-50 of such an advanced radar for any export sale beyond what was installed (now being replaced) in the RoKAF's F-16s?

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