Official New Horizons Discussion Thread

KarelXWB · Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:39 pm

Bump.

New Horizons is about to cross Neptune's path. Pluto is now really getting close!

zanl188 · Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:25 pm

Gotta love these decade long missions and their associated threads.

Another year & change before the fly by. I hope everything works as advertised.

Thanks for the bump.

UA444 · Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:25 am

Can't wait to finally see our 9th planet up close.

KarelXWB · Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 52):
Can't wait to finally see our 9th planet up close.

Technically Pluto is no planet anymore.

UA444 · Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:09 pm

Technically I do not recognize a hijacked vote from less than 400 people with an agenda as something official. Pluto is still a planet.

KarelXWB · Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:42 pm

The issue is there are a few larger planets than Pluto flying in the Kuiper belt (and no, I'm not referring to the asteroids). What to to with those objects? Because like Pluto, they should be called planets as well.

[Edited 2014-04-30 12:44:28]

Stitch · Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 50):
New Horizons is about to cross Neptune's path. Pluto is now really getting close!

This is the mission I have been most interested in / excited about since Cassini. Really looking forward to it.

UA444 · Thu May 01, 2014 12:09 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 55):

I have no issues calling large objects in the Kupier Belt planets. It's a very certain contingent of ignorant astronomers who want to artificially limit the number that have an issue with it. The IAU meets again 2015, right before NH makes it to Pluto. Hopefully the hijacked vote is overturned once and for all.

GDB · Sat May 10, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 54):

Technically I do not recognize a hijacked vote from less than 400 people with an agenda as something official. Pluto is still a planet.

The agenda being a better way of understanding the nature of the Solar System?
Remember, since 1930, as better observation technology became available, the size of Pluto steadily diminished, even when discovered it was much smaller than had been expected for the long sought after 9th planet.
Not another Neptune or Uranus.

Now we know there are other bodies in that region, of similar or larger size than Pluto, the whole nature of the outer Solar System had to be re-considerd.
It certainly explains why Pluto was not another cold gas giant, which is how the planets of the outer Solar System is defined, as smaller rocky worlds define the inner.

Re-defining Pluto surely aids the understanding of the newly discovered region, it makes the New Horizons mission even more scientifically important than when it was first planned, when it was thought Pluto (and Charon) was just an unusual body on the fringes of our system.
It's become a bonus that admitting that Pluto is not a planet in the understood outer Solar System class, it emphasises that we have to re-think that outer region now we know that these other bodies exist.

UA444 · Mon May 12, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 58):
Now we know there are other bodies in that region, of similar or larger size than Pluto, the whole nature of the outer Solar System had to be re-considerd.
It certainly explains why Pluto was not another cold gas giant, which is how the planets of the outer Solar System is defined, as smaller rocky worlds define the inner

That is simply wanting to believe that is how it's "supposed to be". Pluto has far more in common with Earth than Earth does with Jupiter, but we have no problem lumping Jupiter and Earth in the same category. Pluto is simply another type of planet.

And no, New Horizon's mission has been diminished in the eyes of the public, the overwhelming amount want Pluto as a planet.

nomadd22 · Mon May 12, 2014 11:19 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 59):
And no, New Horizon's mission has been diminished in the eyes of the public, the overwhelming amount want Pluto as a planet.

I think deciding scientific issues by polling the public is a great idea. We could have perpetual motion machines and anti-gravity chambers.
As if 1% of them have any idea what new Horizons is in the first place. Most people probably think Pluto was named after Mickey Mouse's dog.

[Edited 2014-05-12 04:21:37]

30989 · Mon May 12, 2014 11:44 am

Interesting. I had written smth. in this thread 8 years ago and couldn't remember it. And soon the probe will reach its target...

Would NH have received the budget it has if Plutos status had been changed already before launch?

Anyway, planet or no planet, I am really curious on what the probe will find.

GDB · Mon May 12, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 59):
That is simply wanting to believe that is how it's "supposed to be". Pluto has far more in common with Earth than Earth does with Jupiter, but we have no problem lumping Jupiter and Earth in the same category. Pluto is simply another type of planet.

And no, New Horizon's mission has been diminished in the eyes of the public, the overwhelming amount want Pluto as a planet.

It is what the experts in the field think, given new knowledge of that part of the system, surely science, including how we name things, has to take account of new evidence?

We don't know how much like Earth or not the Pluto/Charon system is yet, given how much, in just the past 35 years, spacecraft how totally altered so many long held assumptions about the gas giants and even more so, their Moons, I'd be very cautious about dogmatically sticking to other long held assumptions, including that Pluto is a planet in the generally understood sense.

UA444 · Tue May 13, 2014 1:16 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 61):
Would NH have received the budget it has if Plutos status had been changed already before launch?

I doubt it. Good luck convincing clueless congressman that Pluto is significant to go to without the planet label. I firmly believe they would've had a lot more difficulty getting it off the ground if it was labeled "just another iceball".

Quoting GDB (Reply 62):
It is what the experts in the field think, given new knowledge of that part of the system, surely science, including how we name things, has to take account of new evidence?

We don't know how much like Earth or not the Pluto/Charon system is yet, given how much, in just the past 35 years, spacecraft how totally altered so many long held assumptions about the gas giants and even more so, their Moons, I'd be very cautious about dogmatically sticking to other long held assumptions, including that Pluto is a planet in the generally understood sense.

A tiny fraction of the IAU's voting body voted on the planetary discussion in 2006, most went home by that point or didn't even go to Prague in the first place. And a number of astronomers have flat out rejected the definition as not scientific and arbitrary and will not use it or recognize it. I have zero issue calling Pluto an icy dwarf planet or something in that vein. Calling it a dwarf planet, then saying a dwarf planet is not a planet is not only stupid but makes zero sense. There are certain, vocal fragment of astronomers who want to arbitrarily limit the number of "planets" our solar system has, with some using reasoning that we would have 30 planets. So what? Should we limit the number of countries there are so little kids can remember them all? Should we reduce Rhode Island to a dwarf state since it's too small?

Pluto is a body with 5 moons, an atomosphere, seasons, weather, a diversified interior, and much more. Put Earth where Pluto is and it would not "clear the neighborhood" of other objects, which is what disqualified Pluto as a planet. I can't wait for the day we find something bigger than Mercury out there, that way this blows up in their face as they try to justify a KBO bigger than "planet" Mercury somehow can't be a planet.

GDB · Wed May 14, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 63):
A tiny fraction of the IAU's voting body voted on the planetary discussion in 2006, most went home by that point or didn't even go to Prague in the first place. And a number of astronomers have flat out rejected the definition as not scientific and arbitrary and will not use it or recognize it. I have zero issue calling Pluto an icy dwarf planet or something in that vein. Calling it a dwarf planet, then saying a dwarf planet is not a planet is not only stupid but makes zero sense. There are certain, vocal fragment of astronomers who want to arbitrarily limit the number of "planets" our solar system has, with some using reasoning that we would have 30 planets. So what? Should we limit the number of countries there are so little kids can remember them all? Should we reduce Rhode Island to a dwarf state since it's too small?

Pluto is a body with 5 moons, an atomosphere, seasons, weather, a diversified interior, and much more. Put Earth where Pluto is and it would not "clear the neighborhood" of other objects, which is what disqualified Pluto as a planet. I can't wait for the day we find something bigger than Mercury out there, that way this blows up in their face as they try to justify a KBO bigger than "planet" Mercury somehow can't be a planet.

You seem vexed about some voting process, bottom line is now Pluto is not considered a Planet in the same sense as both the rocky inner and gas giant outer ones, as for the atmosphere, does it count when at certain times it's frozen on the surface? Which is thought likely but again, we need to wait for the spacecraft to reach it.

There is however another factor, we've been here before, albeit in the 19th century, as this light heated but sensible piece explains;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2gbGXzFbs

And as for Pluto having 5 moons, some Asteroids have what could be called Moons too.

UA444 · Thu May 15, 2014 3:48 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 64):

That's because it was a voting process that determined made the call whether to call it a planet or not. The vote was flawed and didn't even have the full voting body of the IAU present. The IAU itself is some self-appointed judiciary body.

The fact remains that the planet definition of 2006 is deeply flawed and has not been followed by a substantial amount of the scientific community.

I'm also well-aware of the Ceres, Vesta, etc being called planets before. Certainly a round object like Ceres should also be a planet.

nomadd22 · Thu May 15, 2014 11:13 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 65):
I'm also well-aware of the Ceres, Vesta, etc being called planets before. Certainly a round object like Ceres should also be a planet.

That was actually one of the big arguments. That there was no real reason to call Pluto a planet if you didn't call Ceres one. I was in favor of demoting Pluto, but I have to admit that the definition of "planet" they came up with was pretty lame.

AustrianZRH · Thu May 15, 2014 12:15 pm

The discussion calls for this picture

:

Still, planet or not, I'm looking very much forward to seeing the first results of the New Horizons mission

.

GDB · Thu May 15, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 65):
a round object like Ceres should also be a planet.

And once it was, before further evidence showed that is was not a planet in the accepted sense.
The 8 planets are not the largest objects within a region of the Solar System swarming with many other objects of a range of shapes and sizes, it looks like Pluto is similar in that way.

KarelXWB · Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 50):
New Horizons is about to cross Neptune's path.

Only 5 days left to Neptune orbit crossing.

http://twitter.com/NewHorizons2015/status/502163297018585089

desertjets · Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:51 pm

Reading about the objects in the outer solar system is one of my favorite wiki rabbit holes to go down. I am excited about the New Horizons mission and the type of understanding it will give us about the far outer solar system. But I think Pluto is different enough in meaningful ways -- orbital eccentricity, its orbital inclination, its vastly different size/mass/composition to the other 4 outer solar system planets -- that it may not a be planet in the sense we understand them now. Especially given the number of large KBOs/TNOs that we have discovered in the past couple of decades.

KarelXWB · Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:46 pm

Tomorrow New Horizons will awake from hibernation. A live stream will be available on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQL_cjI66C8

30989 · Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:21 pm

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2015/janua...s-of-pluto-encounter/#.VLhCFEfF-kE

Seems the mission is picking up in pace.

Revelation · Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 70):
But I think Pluto is different enough in meaningful ways -- orbital eccentricity, its orbital inclination, its vastly different size/mass/composition to the other 4 outer solar system planets -- that it may not a be planet in the sense we understand them now.

I thought it was "settled" that Pluto is in the class of "dwarf planets" which is distinct from "proper" planets.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto

So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

KarelXWB · Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 72):
Seems the mission is picking up in pace.

We're only six months away from Pluto, exciting!

UA444 · Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 73):
I thought it was "settled" that Pluto is in the class of "dwarf planets" which is distinct from "proper" planets

It isn't settled when a huge majority of the astronomic community disagrees with, including the head of the NH mission and several of the scientists.

Revelation · Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 75):
It isn't settled when a huge majority of the astronomic community disagrees with, including the head of the NH mission and several of the scientists.

I was unaware of such, so thanks for posting.

KarelXWB · Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:40 pm

Less than 100 days to go ...

canoecarrier · Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 77):
Less than 100 days to go ...

Glad someone started this thread...9 years ago! I read today that we'll get better than terrestrial imagery of Pluto in early June. This is probably the most excited I've been about a NASA mission since Voyager 2.

canoecarrier · Thu May 07, 2015 7:18 pm

If you do twitter, there's a lot of good updates on the project at one of the NASA investigators accounts:

http://twitter.com/NewHorizons2015

Have they identified any of the KBOs they are going to go to after the Pluto flyby yet?

tommy1808 · Thu May 07, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 79):
Have they identified any of the KBOs they are going to go to after the Pluto flyby yet?

Last time I checked they had two candidates after eliminating one, but only one of those two was 100% within kinetic range.

Best regards
Thomas

canoecarrier · Sun May 10, 2015 2:56 am

They're scheduled to do a course correction in July shortly after the closest encounter to Pluto to head for the KBO they choose aren't they? I thought I read the next target is on the order of 3-5 years away.

canoecarrier · Wed May 13, 2015 7:29 pm

NASA has imaged all 5 of Pluto's known moons now. Everything they find from this point on is new knowledge.

KarelXWB · Thu May 28, 2015 2:26 pm

We're getting closer and closer ...

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=33237

canoecarrier · Thu May 28, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 83):
We're getting closer and closer ...

Around 750,000 miles closer each day. I read today by late June the image resolution will be 4 times better than the photos you posted above and when NH is at closest approach on July 14th the images will be 5000 times better than these new photos.

canoecarrier · Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:11 pm

There's a good article today by Alan Stern (one of the project team) in Sky and Telescope magazine detailing when to expect new imagery from the spacecraft and when they'll be making observations.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astro...izons-will-see-and-when-060220155/

Interesting that the spacecraft can collect around 100 times more data then it can transmit back in a day, so they'll be getting information back for a long time after the flyby.

30989 · Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:23 am

Does New Horizons actually have any instrumentation on boad that can confirm the findings of Voyager 1/2 regarding particles in outer space? I know NH is slower at leaving the solar system than Voyager, but it should nevertheless return useful information.

canoecarrier · Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:48 am

I've been following this more on http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showforum=20 where Alan Stern, the PM for the mission posts occasionally, but we're at 20 million kms now and the imagery is improving by the day.

You can also download the Pluto Safari app for free that shows how far NH is from the closest approach. Looking forward to a historic flyby!

rwessel · Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:17 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 86):

Does New Horizons actually have any instrumentation on boad that can confirm the findings of Voyager 1/2 regarding particles in outer space? I know NH is slower at leaving the solar system than Voyager, but it should nevertheless return useful information.

SWAP and PEPSSI should both generate data that will overlap what PLS, LECP, and PWS on the Voyagers produce, although PEPSSI will extend to considerably higher energies. Nothing really like CRS, though.

OTOH, New Horizons won't reach the Heliopause for another three decades.

30989 · Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 88):

Thanks. Do you know how long the energy will last to keep contact with NH?

nomadd22 · Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:54 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 89):

Thanks. Do you know how long the energy will last to keep contact with NH?

NH has a smaller dish than the Voyagers, but, I assume a better receiver, and the DSN is improving all the time. I imagine they'll still be talking when it's 40 years old. NH also has better thermal couplings in the RTG, which was the problem that caused power degradation in the older models, so power shouldn't be an issue.

rwessel · Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 90):
NH has a smaller dish than the Voyagers, but, I assume a better receiver, and the DSN is improving all the time. I imagine they'll still be talking when it's 40 years old.

While I'm it should be able to communicate at that age (assuming no failures), it's data rate will likely be lower than the Voyagers. At similar distances, NH has about a third the useful data rate as the Voyagers do, although there are redundant transceivers, and the can be run at the same time for an approximate doubling of the data rate.

The antenna, by no coincidence, is also about a third the size of the ones on the Voyagers.

The receivers and transmitters are both considerable more power efficient than Voyager's, which should help as the available power decreases - and NH is starting at a fair deficit - barely half the power as on the Voyagers, for a spacecraft two-thirds the size.

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:31 pm

New Horizons has detected frozen methane on Pluto’s surface.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-hori...-of-pluto-and-charon-sunrisesunset

30989 · Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 91):

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 90):

Thank you for your insights. Obviously NH being a probe from the early 2000s is light years ahead of the Voyagers technology wise. Both probes are marvels of their respective age, to me it is impressive to see how many years those machines last without servicing.

GDB · Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:56 pm

Well done to 'Ralph'!
First discovery honours to that team.
Who else cannot wait for all the rest that is soon to come?

UA444 · Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:24 pm

I can't wait until July 14 when we see close up pictures of our 9th planet.

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:19 pm

These pictures of Pluto and Charon are already amazing:

canoecarrier · Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:22 am

NH went into safe mode briefly today. Unfortunately, there will be a short break in science collection while they figure out the details. Pluto is growing daily in the imagery. There's a lot of complex albedo definition showing up in the latest photos. Can't wait until the flyby when Pluto fills the frame of the photos they're taking.

KarelXWB · Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:11 pm

Now in color:

http://twitter.com/Cmdr_Hadfield/status/617681521470799872

nomadd22 · Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:49 am

All looks good. There was a timing error in a command sequence they don't expect to be repeated. If something like this happens within 4 days of the encounter, that only affects comms, they're setting the craft to stay out of safe mode until data collection is complete.

https://www.nasa.gov/nh/new-horizons-plans-july-7-return-to-normal-science-operations

[Edited 2015-07-05 21:51:38]

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