Search found 5747 matches

by jbs2886
Tue Jan 23, 2024 5:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US-Bangla long haul and A330s
Replies: 10
Views: 2904

Re: US-Bangla long haul and A330s

I can find no record of an A330 ever being registered as S2-ALA. A330-343E msn 1527 (ex RP-C3344) is currently painted in US Bangla c/s but parked at Guangzhou (CAN). This frame is due to be leased from Avolon as S2-ALB. Their other frame is supposed to be A330-343 msn 1445 (ex 9H-POP, VP-CUF, RP-C...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections
Replies: 3147
Views: 417666

Re: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections

UA has already checked most -900ERs. Using what procedure? The "visual" one? So a visual inspection is OK for the 900ER but not a Max 9? Gotcha. That makes complete sense. Thank you. Christ dude. Don’t attack the messenger. I said checked. I don’t know what they did nor did I suggest anyt...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections
Replies: 3147
Views: 417666

Re: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections

The FAA works for the industry? Come on. If that were true the MAX 7 and 10 would have been certified years ago.

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024
Replies: 257
Views: 55439

Re: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024

Yes. The regulators concern is apparently related to another acquisition by CMA CGM of a broker (or something like that). Even at the time of this proposed tie up, the companies knew that acquisition may be a problem, but they hoped to clear the regulatory hurdle. I can’t find the article I read, b...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 21, 2024 11:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections
Replies: 3147
Views: 417666

Re: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections

Any know what the status of Alaska MAX 9 is in the schedule? How far are they pulled? (I wish just the simple status of the fleet/schedule versus the rest was a separate thread.)

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A220 Sales Campaigns - 2024
Replies: 23
Views: 5648

Re: Airbus A220 Sales Campaigns - 2024

I just stumbled upon this and I am not certain if it should be taken seriously. Apparently in October of last year AA started looking into small narrowbody replacement. -7 MAX (most likely winner), A220, and E2-195 are in the competition. So while a long shot, a sales campaign. Or did I miss the aw...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

What's the new cabin like? Anywhere I can see it? Have you been on a Delta A321neo? ;). The same Delta Flight Products IFE and Supposedly the same seats. Also supposedly the 75H refresh is also getting the same treatment. Yes I seen the new delta A321neo, it was called JetBlue mint 2.0. I swear eve...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024
Replies: 257
Views: 55439

Re: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024

A bit of a mess for AFKL Cargo now. AFKL and CMA CGM have agreed to drop their 2022 commercial and cross ownership agreement effective March 31 due to "constrained regulatory environment in certain important markets (which) did not allow the cooperation to function optimally". They will e...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 18, 2024 6:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2024
Replies: 79
Views: 23075

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2024

Akasa orders 150 MAX. Some reports I see say MAX 10 and MAX 8-200. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-bags-150-max-planes-order-indias-akasa-air-2024-01-18/ As a point of order, this was a 2023 "undisclosed" order. https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2024-01-18-Akasa-Air-O...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2024
Replies: 79
Views: 23075

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2024

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 024-01-18/
-->

Akasa orders 150 MAX. Some reports I see say MAX 10 and MAX 8-200.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 024-01-18/

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAS opens a new long-haul route to the USA. Will fly from Copenhagen to Atlanta
Replies: 160
Views: 21154

Re: SAS opens a new long-haul route to the USA. Will fly from Copenhagen to Atlanta

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads on A.net recently. SAS adding ATL provides a lot of connection opportunities for Scandinavians (for the NE and West, there is JFK/BOS/LAX). Instead, you have people saying this route doesn't make sense because SkyTeam doesn't make sense for SAS (well, ...

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024
Replies: 257
Views: 55439

Re: Air France-KLM News and Discussion - 2024

inkjet7 wrote:
Glennos041 wrote:
Does the Total order of 50 a350 aircraft include the freighter versions for klm?


I don't think the freighter version is included for either AF or KL.


Not as part of the 50 A350s recently ordered (6 in July and 44 at year end). But, both Air France and Martinair/KLM have 4 each on order.

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAS opens a new long-haul route to the USA. Will fly from Copenhagen to Atlanta
Replies: 160
Views: 21154

Re: SAS opens a new long-haul route to the USA. Will fly from Copenhagen to Atlanta

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads on A.net recently. SAS adding ATL provides a lot of connection opportunities for Scandinavians (for the NE and West, there is JFK/BOS/LAX). Instead, you have people saying this route doesn't make sense because SkyTeam doesn't make sense for SAS (well, t...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024
Replies: 804
Views: 144392

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024

dtwpilot225 wrote:
Does anyone think there is Any chance that pkx comes back in 2024 ?


I think there is a chance if Chinese frequencies open up, but whether DL does SEA and/or DTW, don't know (depends in part of if the DOT will enforce using the frequencies).

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines Network and News Discussion - 2024
Replies: 154
Views: 21265

Re: Alaska Airlines Network and News Discussion - 2024

How do we think AS will handle this from a voucher/cancellation perspective? Their current waiver expires tomorrow and it doesn't seem like the fleet is going to be back in the air by then. Its been extended to the 24th. They need to continue to do this until they either 1) build the schedule witho...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Is Southwest having another meltdown? 1/15/2024
Replies: 60
Views: 12010

Re: Is Southwest having another meltdown? 1/15/2024

Weather in multiple hubs across the country creating cancellations does not equal a "meltdown." A meltdown is when the airline's operations start failing after an event.

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air Cargo Discussion - 2024
Replies: 408
Views: 43292

Re: Air Cargo Discussion - 2024

We see Amazon continuing to try to shift air volume to trucking, abandoning their ideas of speedy delivery. I'm averaging 3-4 days for packages now, not counting the one order they just flat out lost. Air fleets will reflect that. Amazon hasn’t abandoned speedy delivery. They’ve just grown their wa...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777 Production / Deliveries - 2024
Replies: 38
Views: 10995

Re: Boeing 777 Production / Deliveries - 2024

Last 2023 777 delivery : Qatar 777F A7-BTA delivery flight towards Doha at 30 December with callsign QR3180, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/A7BTA/history/20231230/1700Z/KPAE/OTHH But why is Boeing assigning line numbers for B777-9 when they don't even have certifications in place yet? Be...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

21 321NEO will be configured for premium transcon. That’s an increase from the 18 757…. even though it’s been a long while since all 18 were utilized on premium transcon/ Atlantic flying. Thus, it’s a very educated guess that 321NEO will replace most of the 763 flying LAX/JFK, perhaps supplemented ...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

exactly. Airbus said as much I’m curious if DL is operating the A339 as such with a lot of JFK and BOS? I would think they’d want to replace the -300s operating out of SEA and PDX. The -300s don’t operate out of SEA, it’s basically all A339s. DL142 in air right now would beg to differ, and SEA-AMS ...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

Is the implication here that the A333 outperforms the A339 on fuel efficiency on routes 5 hours or less? I’m a little confused as to how that would be the case…or maybe I misunderstood? It has been mentioned that on routes up to 3000nm, the A339 doesn't realize its fuel efficiency because it's heav...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

Delta buys cheap airplanes Not sure the planes this thread is actually about are "cheap." It is not as simple as being cheap - like any smart company, DL is looking for the most efficient plane for the mission, considering other factors, like MRO deals, etc. To diminish this to "chea...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Domestic Hubs Connecting Traffic Comparison (Q3 2023 vs. Q3 2022)
Replies: 43
Views: 4826

Re: US Domestic Hubs Connecting Traffic Comparison (Q3 2023 vs. Q3 2022)

I think NYC is particularly notable here with both UA EWR and DL JFK/LGA big decreases. In my view, I think the substantial decreased connections is due to increasing O&D from NYC as demand returned. This shows DL and UA moved connection flows from other hubs to maintain their NYC hubs (can't b...

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by jbs2886
Mon Jan 15, 2024 12:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

Until Boeing gets their act together any Delta 787 order is likely dead in the water. For those asking what will replace the 767 fleet, look no further than a potential A330-800Neo order. Delta flies a small fleet of A330-200s that will eventually need replacing. This makes the most sense. For like...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Domestic Hubs Connecting Traffic Comparison (Q3 2023 vs. Q3 2022)
Replies: 43
Views: 4826

Re: US Domestic Hubs Connecting Traffic Comparison (Q3 2023 vs. Q3 2022)

I think NYC is particularly notable here with both UA EWR and DL JFK/LGA big decreases. In my view, I think the substantial decreased connections is due to increasing O&D from NYC as demand returned. This shows DL and UA moved connection flows from other hubs to maintain their NYC hubs (can't bl...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023
Replies: 647
Views: 189204

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023

12 undisclosed A320neos alongside 137 A321neos. What if those orders comprise of two or more airlines? The 12 A320neos could be from a totally different airline and the 137 A321neos could very well be from American. They were expecting a large narrowbody order to replace their ageing A321s & 73...

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by jbs2886
Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

Per the PR, its 58 widebodies on firm order. https://news.delta.com/delta-adds-state-art-airbus-a350-1000-widebody-fleet That A330 and 764 order is going to be very big, but I also think we should see some growth. Your link says 48, not 58! “ With the commitments announced today, Delta has 284 narr...

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by jbs2886
Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

That's exactly correct - about 30 less TATL frames with the full 763 retirement, maybe a little less. There are 52 firm orders inbound between now and then, and 20 more options. There are some for growth, but that aside, that actually covers all the 764s, 332s, and half of the older 333 fleet too. ...

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by jbs2886
Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

Delta could also keep adding A330-900 instead. They are not booked out for years to come. They are available in a rather short time frame, much shorter than a 787. Delta can order according to how the need arises and does not need to decide today. I see no pressure to go for the 787. Now that DL ha...

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by jbs2886
Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023
Replies: 647
Views: 189204

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023

This thread is so far off topic in an AvB.

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by jbs2886
Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:31 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

I'm wondering if there is a Delta insider who can shed some light on this or tell me if I'm on their right track. Looking at multiple post from last years Delta fleet thread I surmise Delta still has 16 A359s on order, as well as 15 A339NEOs on order. If those numbers are correct that means in addi...

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by jbs2886
Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:27 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Korean Air-Asiana Merger News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 485
Views: 143573

Re: Korean Air-Asiana Merger News and Discussion Thread

EU antitrust approval is expected with the airlines pledging to sell Asiana's cargo department and devest four European routes. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-antitrust-regulators-set-okay-korean-air-asiana-deal-sources-say-2024-01-12/ Good news. T'Way expected to buy the car...

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Listening to the earnings call now. The current plan is 767-300ERs will be removed from Intercontinental flying by 2028 and will be completely retired by 2030. The 767-400ERs will continue flying beyond 2030. That's not how I'm reading the transcript. It says 764s continue beyond 2025, but prior pl...

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Listening to the earnings call now. The current plan is 767-300ERs will be removed from Intercontinental flying by 2028 and will be completely retired by 2030. The 767-400ERs will continue flying beyond 2030. Where can we find a recording of it? ir.delta.com —-> events Google the transcript - https...

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

Incorrect. They need to replace a ton more 763s before considering a 764 replacement. Ed mentioned today that the 763 will be scaled back from INTL flying in 2028 and gone from the fleet by 2030. This means the next major order will be a considerable number of 763 replacements, not 764 replacements...

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

With deliveries beginning in 2026, does anyone know how fast they will come? Over 2-3 years?

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023
Replies: 647
Views: 189204

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023

Airbus Orders for December 2023: A220-100 1 A220-300 64: Lufthansa 40, Delta 14, Undisclosed 10 A320neo 64: Easy Jet 52, Undisclosed 12 A321neo 523: Easy Jet 101, Turkish 150, Korean Air 20, Eva Air 15, Avolon 100, Undisclosed 137 A330-200 5: ADS A350F 11: Turkish 5, Cathay Pacific 6 A350-900 83 : ...

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by jbs2886
Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023
Replies: 647
Views: 189204

Re: Airbus and Boeing Orders - 2023

Airbus Orders for December 2023: A220-100 1 A220-300 64: Lufthansa 40, Delta 14, Undisclosed 10 A320neo 64: Easy Jet 52, Undisclosed 12 A321neo 523: Easy Jet 101, Turkish 150, Korean Air 20, Eva Air 15, Avolon 100, Undisclosed 137 A330-200 5: ADS A350F 11: Turkish 5, Cathay Pacific 6 A350-900 83 : ...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAS files for chapter 11
Replies: 273
Views: 85798

Re: SAS files for chapter 11

Air France ordered the 787 but ended up swapping some of them with KLM before delivery with the A350 KLM had ordered going to Air France. It's not impossible to see AF/KLM transfer an order across to SAS if they think it's worth it. "the 6 remaining Boeing 787 ordered for Air France will be tr...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Can we start a Delta 767 replacement thread? That way people will see it and know that within that thread, there are already many answers to, and opinions about this. Right now just about every page of the fleet, network and even 350-1000 threads are littered with the same questions and statements....

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Delta has ordered 14 more A223s, reflected in the 2023 year-end Airbus O&D figures. DL will now have a staggering 100 A223s when all have been delivered. No official DL announcement yet though. Maybe they are waiting for tomorrow (hopefully along with the WB order). Curious if these are more op...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAS files for chapter 11
Replies: 273
Views: 85798

Re: SAS files for chapter 11

Air France ordered the 787 but ended up swapping some of them with KLM before delivery with the A350 KLM had ordered going to Air France. It's not impossible to see AF/KLM transfer an order across to SAS if they think it's worth it. "the 6 remaining Boeing 787 ordered for Air France will be tr...

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by jbs2886
Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Washington State Aviation - 2024
Replies: 205
Views: 18004

Re: Washington State Aviation - 2024

Should add Air India to SEA for 2024...https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1490177 No official announcement just yet, but SEA has been added to AI's route map on their website along with LAX/DFW and the other rumored cities to be added. https://x.com/IshrionA/status/174529645784...

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by jbs2886
Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska / Hawaiian Air Merger Discussion
Replies: 1226
Views: 169351

Re: Alaska / Hawaiian Air Merger Discussion

I wonder if the current 737 MAX debacle changes AS management's calculus on the future of the A321neo fleet. One of the many reasons I prefer flying HA is I don't have to worry about being stuck on a MAX or 787 (at least until April). From what I remember reading and hearing, AS management loved th...

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by jbs2886
Wed Jan 10, 2024 9:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections
Replies: 3147
Views: 417666

Re: AS1282 PDX-ONT decompression event, returned to PDX, FAA temporarily grounds 737MAX9 for inspections

I checked FlightAware B737 MAX 9 are currently flying 13 of them I think they already inspection and let back to service but are still grounded mostly until all completed replace bolts or tools are added. Q None for US-based airlines are flying. Other airlines are flying them, but (1) the FAA has z...

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by jbs2886
Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Charlotte Aviation - 2024
Replies: 151
Views: 13929

Re: Charlotte Aviation - 2024

It seems that despite the Charlotte metro continuing to grow along with businesses starting to call the city home, CLT continues to lose out on new airline service opportunities to RDU instead. Is there a concrete reason as to why this is? Because the hometown airline will likely wage war and erode...

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by jbs2886
Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Rumor: Reuters - DL to order A350-1000

Great news. I expect a significant A35K order from DL, but also more A359 and lots of options. I don't think DL will order more A339 now. I do wonder if Airbus at some point will resurrect the A350-800. (?) The smallest variant of the A350 family was cancelled, not because of a lack of orders, but ...

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 09, 2024 10:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

I personally think DL is going too big on gauge. 20x 35Ks are fine, but I still don't understand how they can replace all the 763s with larger aircraft. Perhaps they just wont. Routes like PRG, MXP, MUC, STR, BRU may see seasonal suspensions. Every airline that’s replaced 767 passenger planes with ...

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1010
Views: 160330

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

I don't know, but I think utilizing the A359 for medium haul TATL seems like an under-utilization of the aircraft. The A339's capabilities fit that market better. Then again some European carriers fly A359s to the CONUS, so... There's a sizeable capacity difference between the two. The A359 doesn't...

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by jbs2886
Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777 Production / Deliveries - 2024
Replies: 38
Views: 10995

Re: Boeing 777 Production / Deliveries - 2024

Last 2023 777 delivery : Qatar 777F A7-BTA delivery flight towards Doha at 30 December with callsign QR3180, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/A7BTA/history/20231230/1700Z/KPAE/OTHH First 2024 777 delivery : Atlas Air, ACMI leased MSC AIR CARGO, 777F N710GT delivery flight towards HKG at 4 ...

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