Search found 593 matches

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 12
by seatback
Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 4/15/2018: WS Drops YYC-DFW/ORD, BOS-YUL; UA Adds IAD-PBG; AS Trims More Transcons
Replies: 104
Views: 11088

Re: OAG Changes 4/15/2018: WS Drops YYC-DFW/ORD, BOS-YUL; UA Adds IAD-PBG; AS Trims More Transcons

DL JFK-ATL JUL 8>7 DL JFK-BCN NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.9 DL JFK-DFW OCT 1.8>3 DL JFK-EDI NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-FCO NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-MAD NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-PBI OCT 1.0>0 DL JFK-PUJ NOV 1.1>1.4 DEC 1.5>1.8 DL LGA-GSP JUL 1.3>3 AUG 1.7>3 SEP 1.7>3 OCT 1.7>3 NOV 1.7>3 DE...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 4/15/2018: WS Drops YYC-DFW/ORD, BOS-YUL; UA Adds IAD-PBG; AS Trims More Transcons
Replies: 104
Views: 11088

Re: OAG Changes 4/15/2018: WS Drops YYC-DFW/ORD, BOS-YUL; UA Adds IAD-PBG; AS Trims More Transcons

DL JFK-ATL JUL 8>7 DL JFK-BCN NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.9 DL JFK-DFW OCT 1.8>3 DL JFK-EDI NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-FCO NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-MAD NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 DL JFK-PBI OCT 1.0>0 DL JFK-PUJ NOV 1.1>1.4 DEC 1.5>1.8 DL LGA-GSP JUL 1.3>3 AUG 1.7>3 SEP 1.7>3 OCT 1.7>3 NOV 1.7>3 DEC...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Frontier Airlines 2017 Total Load Factors
Replies: 23
Views: 3001

Re: Frontier Airlines 2017 Total Load Factors

What's their breakeven load factor?

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why does F9 still fly to DCA?
Replies: 31
Views: 3842

Re: Why does F9 still fly to DCA?

I'd be curious if AA would be interested in serving DCA-DEN. Seems like a big hole in their network.

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Memphis air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 58
Views: 3947

Re: Memphis air service discussion - 2018

Is it weird that in the final drawings Memphis pushed Delta to the very end of B? That doesn't seem like a very desirable spot. Meanwhile, AA, WN, and F9 get the premo spots.

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines and Texas
Replies: 87
Views: 11166

Re: Delta Air Lines and Texas

Well, they used to have a smaller base/hub at DFW, but then pulled out as American started to significantly grow their operations there. I've come across lots of people on here that think that AUS would be a good hub for Delta. This reads as though Delta was at one time a bit player in Dallas when ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B
Replies: 12
Views: 2766

Re: CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B

Did AA want to move to B? Why wouldn't WN just go to B, and leave AA alone? On another note, I wonder if we'll see Spirit soon.

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B
Replies: 12
Views: 2766

Re: CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B

Also considering that the majors really don't have a lot of west coast covered from CVG, a PHX flight makes sense. I've been halfway thinking AA would someday add PHX and perhaps LAX. Seems WN could beat them to the punch.

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B
Replies: 12
Views: 2766

CVG News: WN to PHX and AA to B

Read on Wiki that WN is planning to serve PHX beginning next Spring seasonally and AA is slated to move to concourse B. Any idea which gates? I wonder if we'll see Delta further reduce their CVG operation? Also, would AA start their own PHX?

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA CLT hub today vs DL CVG hub at the peak?
Replies: 67
Views: 9374

Re: AA CLT hub today vs DL CVG hub at the peak?

Both serve(d) two very different purposes within their respective networks. CVG was the Chicago, Detroit, and St. Louis for Delta. They had no other East-West hub. Whereas AA, UA, NW, and TW had strong east/west hubs. Cincinnati served it's purpose well for the time they needed it. But after the mer...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 11/26/2017: AA Adds CLT-BGR, DFW-OAK, ORD-CHS, PHX-AMA/OKC
Replies: 105
Views: 17575

Re: OAG Changes 11/26/2017: AA Adds CLT-BGR, DFW-OAK, ORD-CHS, PHX-AMA/OKC

Indy gets four dailies from PHX but CVG can't get even one on AA?

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL Future Expansion
Replies: 516
Views: 58402

Re: DL Future Expansion

I'd add BNA as well, but maybe it's too close of proximity to the main ATL hub....... Good point. Is it really that much closer than RDU to make a difference? BNA is closer to ATL than RDU, so I don't know if DL would be keen on making Nashville a focus city. Especially since CVG is still a hub and...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL A350 visits DEN
Replies: 36
Views: 8020

Re: DL A350 visits DEN

Did pax actually go on it, or just a training flight? Looks like the DTW-DEN took a round about way to get there. Zoom in on CVG- looks like it did some approaches and/or touch and go's there. The altitude log indicates it as well. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9762/history/20170926/1130Z/K...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MEM gives updated B Concourse update with layouts
Replies: 28
Views: 3926

Re: MEM gives updated B Concourse update with layouts

Did Delta close its SkyClub? If not, where will it go?

Jump to post
by seatback
Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:28 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Badly Named (Or Branded) Airlines.
Replies: 152
Views: 9655

Re: Badly Named (Or Branded) Airlines.

I'll second Jet Airways. I'd also add Air Tran (absolutely no creativity in either one). For a major branding fail is United using Continental's colors and logo. Awful. They had an opportunity to completely rebrand and missed it.

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DEN Great Hall Project Update
Replies: 168
Views: 15127

Re: DEN Great Hall Project Update

I used to fly weekly to Denver. I don't get why people think this airport is so great. It takes forever to get anywhere and get anything. They should spend the money on increasing the capacity and frequency of the train and develop some alternate way to get to the rental car area (think: SFO).. The ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US airline hub closures
Replies: 116
Views: 15966

Re: US airline hub closures

No need for closures, the big 3 have pretty good equilibrium has noted up tread. I think the future growth for American Airlines and possibly even United Airlines will be in smaller focus cities small and little hubs. Delta is by means of needs doing this. AA and UA will catch on. A point that was ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 30 Year Old 777 Captain Says She's The Youngest
Replies: 42
Views: 16605

Re: 30 Year Old 777 Captain Says She's The Youngest

The issue isn't her age or gender, though the politically correct group like to make it so, rather the experience and knowledge she brings to the position. If she is a good pilot then great for her; if she is not she should be gone. This shouldn't be allowed and I wonder if she'd be able to do this...

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?
Replies: 54
Views: 7264

Re: Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?

The current size of AA at BOS is a mere result of its still recent merger with US and it will be short lived, I think. In due time, AA's presence will shrink. I just don't see SYR, MDT, PIT, ROC, and CDG lasting much longer. However, lets keep things in perspective here, even if all AA has left are...

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?
Replies: 54
Views: 7264

Re: Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?

I guess it really comes down to competing strategies. AA is purely a hub to spoke carrier while Delta is that plus important point to point routes. Seems that in 5 years, we'll be scratching our heads and complaining that AA didn't defend BOS (much like we do today with JFK/LGA). In the end, I like ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?
Replies: 54
Views: 7264

Will/Should AA Defend its No. 2 Position at Boston?

With Delta's recent announcement that they'll add MSY and PIT from BOS, it has me hoping that AA will defend its number 2 position at the airport. Delta's trying to grow there, building upon strong O&D. My hope is AA won't cede Boston and take a page from Delta's playbook. BTW, the same could be...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th
Replies: 312
Views: 38347

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th
Replies: 312
Views: 38347

Re: Frontier to announce MIA expansion

Coupling with was is noted on the OKC F9 thread, MIA-OKC/BUF/GRR? None of those would surprise me. Nor would some combination of CLE, CVG, LAX, TTN, LGA, MKE, PVD, COS and ISP. Now let's see which ones last more than six months! This is what drives me nuts with F9. I'm uncomfortable planning a trip...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Ending PHL-LHR on March 23, 2018
Replies: 142
Views: 21000

Re: Delta Ending PHL-LHR on March 23, 2018

The PHL market is 2x or 3x bigger than IND, BNA, etc. If DL cannot make the larger PHL-LHR market work, why do people think midsize cities like IND, BNA, etc. could work? The common denominator between all is the lack of DL connections on the US side. That being said, DL could use these slots to ad...

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Frontier Schedule Update
Replies: 16
Views: 3508

Re: Frontier Schedule Update

My experience is that it is determined by when it is ready to be released. For example, if they are waiting to find out about an airplane delivery date they hold the release until they know. So, bottom line, random. They do it to basically eliminate reaccomodation which isn't bad. I am sure it does...

Jump to post
by seatback
Mon May 01, 2017 2:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 4/30/2017: DL Closes BGI, QR Delays LAS, 3M Drops RSW-NAS
Replies: 69
Views: 11314

Re: OAG Changes 4/30/2017: DL Closes BGI, QR Delays LAS, 3M Drops RSW-NAS

Vctony wrote:
flyjoe wrote:
usxguy wrote:

All of them, except for CVG, are historically large LAA stations.


Many years ago, pre-Delta hub, CVG was a large market for AA (even had an Admiral's Club). Today, I believe AA is number 2, but need to double-check that.

I think we'll eventually see a PHX flight and maybe even an LAX flight.

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines at DFW
Replies: 35
Views: 7960

Re: Delta Air Lines at DFW

SEA-DFW is surely a matter of when, not if, and I wouldn't be surprised to see ~2 daily E75s on BOS- and RDU-DFW either with the way DL is growing at those two airports. Other than those, the only major development I can see happening is more ATL-DFW flights if DL is forced to leave DAL. Of course,...

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:18 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Yahoo Industry news about airline business was changed
Replies: 17
Views: 5126

Re: What happened to Yahoo Airline/Aviation news

Yahoo is going away due to the Verizon acquisition, so it makes sense the site is probably gone. I'm not sure what comparable site there is for the same kind of info.

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska to Keep DAL
Replies: 100
Views: 13740

Re: Alaska to Keep DAL

I had a talk with my friend at AS and she stated they have intended to stay at DAL for O&D but look for a shift in capacity to SkyWest E-175's while mainline metal will maintain DFW presence for AA codeshare and connections. FLY So if this is the case, I assume they won't need all the space (10...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska New Portland/LAX adds
Replies: 38
Views: 5323

Re: Alaska New Portland/LAX adds

commavia wrote:
Interesting schedule on LAX-PHL - it's pretty complimentary (as in not overlapping) with AA's existing six daily flights.


I think this is strange...of all routes they could add from LAX? Interesting they're poking their buddy.

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

Some updates on infrastructure at CVG: Just flew in yesterday on the MSP-CVG 717-200 flight, which was packed, not one seat was empty! Seems like the route could support mainline more often during the year :-). Overhearing some others on the flight, many were discussing the lack of year round CVG-S...

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

Didn't NW have plans for F on CRJ-200s in the mid-2000s? I've heard it was studied, but that had more to do with the scope clause at the time that limited a chunk of the 200 fleet to 44 seats, which were known as CRJ-440's. So if you can only have 44 seats, it might make sense. Delta announced toda...

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

But, in terms of actually seeing the CR2 gone from Delta, I'll say it again. Ed Bastian very clearly stated on an Ask Ed segment recently that there is no plan to completely remove the CR2 from the fleet anytime soon. As the MX costs go up on them, he did mention they may be phased out, but there a...

Jump to post
by seatback
Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

With AA resuming mainline to DFW, (welcome back :bigthumbsup: ), could we eventually see other CVG AA mainline routes down the road, perhaps CLT (7 daily flights)? It wouldn't surprise me to see a 319 to CLT (along with PHX and LAX as I said before). As far as BA LHR service, I'd love to see it, bu...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Status of Alaska Airlines at DFW Airport and Dallas Love Field with AS-VX merger
Replies: 66
Views: 6714

Re: Status of Alaska Airlines at DFW Airport and Dallas Love Field with AS-VX merger

Would AS really want to compete with AA out of DAL? I'm sure there's a feeling that they don't want to irritate their only remaining large domestic partner. That said, I'm sure AS isn't going to want to hand over their DAL gates to Delta either. Maybe DAL's a good place for jetBlue (BOS, JFK, DCA, L...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

What phasing out of RJs? Only a handful are being parked this year, and they're all mostly ATL flying, are they not. Delta has previously stated that it is phasing out 50 seaters in the coming years. If you look at CVG, where 90 percent is CRJs, you are slowly seeing more mainline, but not the elim...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

My understanding is that DL did not reduce flights to DEN but rather upgraded the flight from CR9 to 717. It will be interesting to see whether DL's acquisition of the C-Series helps (re)open any routes from CVG (e.g., SAN; year-round SEA; PHX). At the same time, I wonder whether how much longer CV...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

How much of a battle is it really with F9? Their less than daily flights and their lack of commitment to routes makes me believe that if WN wanted to come in and essentially push them out, they could. Any chance for a DL flight to AMS?[/quote] I could see LHR way before AMS because CDG offers a lot ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Re: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

My understanding is that DL did not reduce flights to DEN but rather upgraded the flight from CR9 to 717. It will be interesting to see whether DL's acquisition of the C-Series helps (re)open any routes from CVG (e.g., SAN; year-round SEA; PHX). At the same time, I wonder whether how much longer CV...

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread
Replies: 46
Views: 4180

Cincinnati (CVG) Aviation Thread

There seems to be some good things happening at CVG. Much has been reported, but some hasn't been discussed. I thought it deserved its own thread. 1. WN begins MDW and BWI in June. Future additions could include: PHX, TPA, FLL, MCO, DEN, OAK, LAS, and BOS. I know there's a healthy amount of ULCC on ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pilots: AA leaving behind standby passengers to improve on-time departure
Replies: 54
Views: 12802

Re: Pilots: AA leaving behind standby passengers to improve on-time departure

This happened to me a few months ago on United...I, along with six others were revenue paxs onnecting in Chicago. The plane was there, but not an employee in sight. The door closed a good 13 minutes before schedule, published departure. Awful. I won't fly UA through ORD again. Flights close 15 minu...

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pilots: AA leaving behind standby passengers to improve on-time departure
Replies: 54
Views: 12802

Re: Pilots: AA leaving behind standby passengers to improve on-time departure

This happened to me a few months ago on United...I, along with six others were revenue paxs onnecting in Chicago. The plane was there, but not an employee in sight. The door closed a good 13 minutes before schedule, published departure. Awful. I won't fly UA through ORD again.

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What's next for Denver Intl Airport
Replies: 185
Views: 28901

Re: What's next for Denver Intl Airport

I just saw on Wikipedia that Allegiant is starting DEN-CVG in June. Not sure how reliable this is, but interesting.

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Chicago O'Hare Summer 2017 Int'l Schedule
Replies: 50
Views: 8184

Re: Chicago O'Hare Summer 2017 Int'l Schedule

Two questions:
1.) Why can't AA make ORD-MEX work?
2.) Is Delta picking up VA's LHR route?

Jump to post
by seatback
Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DFW: AA gets serious about Terminal F; Renovations to Terminal C in lingo
Replies: 87
Views: 16188

Re: DFW: AA gets serious about F; Renovations to C in lingo

Terminal F at DFW? I thought that was reserved for Southwest when it moves over from Love Field. I think that vision lasted for about 6 weeks between the time DL announced they would de-hub and WN announced they would take the Wright Amendment back to court. Oh, and it only existed in the minds of ...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago
Replies: 54
Views: 12678

Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

As someone mentioned earlier, this is about Kirby trying to convince his new team that he's now one of them.

Jump to post
by seatback
Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:47 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Grows Cincinnati
Replies: 17
Views: 5263

Re: Delta Grows Cincinnati

I contend that CVG is a unique situation, it's the only non-hub hub that is actually growing by the onetime hub airline. Pittsburgh, Memphis, St. Louis, and other can't claim that. Delta has found that by changing its strategy from hub to a focus city they can actually make money in CVG. Although, I...

Jump to post
by seatback
Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Grows Cincinnati
Replies: 17
Views: 5263

Delta Grows Cincinnati

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-exp ... 00934.html

Delta grows in some markets and retimes flights to others. Nice to see more first class and the reduction of the CRJs.
-->

According to their press release: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-exp ... 00934.html

Delta grows in some markets and retimes flights to others. Nice to see more first class and the reduction of the CRJs.

Jump to post
by seatback
Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL SEA Domestic Expansion (again)
Replies: 194
Views: 30855

Re: DL SEA Domestic Expansion (again)

I would guess, Oakland, Burbank and a couple of Midwestern cities, Indianapolis and Chicago... Columbus Ohio. PLEASE! I highly doubt BUR would be on their radar. AS already has a good hold on this route, so I just don't see that happening. As for CMH...Yes, Please!!!!! Since CVG can't handle a year...

Jump to post
by seatback
Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA #2 in SFO
Replies: 29
Views: 6523

Re: AA #2 in SFO

[

ORD:
UA & AA are within 3 points, however, I don't know how all those regionals fold in

I think for the purpose of market share, adding the regionals in is appropriate.

Jump to post
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 12