Search found 6662 matches

by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Locations of ex-NW planes not yet parted out
Replies: 9
Views: 1244

Re: Locations of ex-NW planes not yet parted out

DL sent a bunch of the D95s and MD90s up to BYH. I'm pretty sure that NW never sent anything up and that everything would be in DL colors up there.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Locations of ex-NW planes not yet parted out
Replies: 9
Views: 1244

Re: Locations of ex-NW planes not yet parted out

There are a bunch of B742Fs from the former NW Cargo parked up at KOSC / former Wurthsmith AFB in Oscoda, MI. They used as parts mostly for Kallitta I believe. Last time I was by there was about 2 years ago, can't remember what else was up there. http://michiganexposures.blogspot.com/2011/04/wurtsmi...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta adds RDU-ORD
Replies: 85
Views: 9018

Re: Delta adds RDU-ORD

ORD for DL isn't necessarily gate constrainted but they do have a much higher ratio of flights per gate than most outstations. The biggest issue is that only about 2 of their gates can handle 739/321/757 sized aircraft, and even so I believe one of them closes and adjacent gate due to wingspan clear...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta not a fan of second airport in Atlanta
Replies: 121
Views: 11797

Re: Delta not a fan of second airport in Atlanta

I don't think anyone is talking about a project of that grandiose scale. I suspect any sort of "second commercial Atlanta-area airport" project would be akin to the privately-developed terminal at PAE or a low-cost project like the PGD terminal or the new LGB terminal which came in under ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta vs. Boeing
Replies: 51
Views: 7942

Re: Delta vs. Boeing

Somebody brings up this typic weekly, and the same users provide the same answers. Honestly, a.net should just sticky this. Yep. It's such an amateur-hour topic as well. People with any sort of critical thinking skills or basic understanding of the industry should be able to answer the question bef...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DELTA aircraft deliveries
Replies: 21
Views: 4075

Re: DELTA aircraft deliveries

How many MD's are expected to be parked at the end of summer?

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

When do you see all 6 mainline on DTW-DFW? I only see 2-3 out of 6 per day in October, unless its some one-off event. That would be a pretty significant bump in capacity since its typically a mix of CR9/E75 76 seaters, 717, A319/A320. Ironically I just booked a DTW-DFW ticket for next week on a CR9 ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

What market you refering to as all 6?

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

I actually thought NK had previously operated DTW-MBJ. Would not surprise me to see DL increase their service this winter. DL hasn’t really announced and/or loaded much of their winter schedule yet. They typically blast out a bunch of press releases in late July / early August when they do. That sai...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Part of the reason AS is cutting routes like DTW-PDX is because the flights eat-up a lot of aircraft and crew time due to mid-con length flights. They get more short-medium length flights in per day / per aircraft on shorter length flights. WN went through a similar evolution a few years ago. Regard...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

I don't know if I'd say they are that inconsistent in most recent times, the wildcard that skews that perception tends to the the ORD flights and seasonal/seasonality reductions on off-peak flights to certain hubs. AA: DFW - all mainline, all time. I don't think this has ever received a regional ope...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JetBlue Orders 60 Airbus A220-300
Replies: 354
Views: 46662

Re: JetBlue Orders 60 Airbus A220-300

A few posts up in the thread there was a delivery schedule by fleet type.

Could someone in the know do a retirement by fleet type summary? I don’t tend to follow B6 fleet changes all that closely.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta flew a record 17.7mln in June
Replies: 9
Views: 2201

Re: Delta flew a record 17.7mln in June

The Friday before the 4th of July holiday week historically is almost always the single-busiest systemwide travel day for all of the US-based airlines. You have the mix of business travel finishing-up in advance of the weekend & holiday week, plus a big spike in summer leisure travel in advance ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 7/8/2018:DY JFKAMS to Daily;LV Adds EWRORY;AS Freq Changes
Replies: 26
Views: 6465

Re: OAG Changes 7/8/2018:DY JFKAMS to Daily;LV Adds EWRORY;AS Freq Changes

Quiet week due to the 4th of July holiday week in the US. Realistically, most of the domestic schedule is set through Q3 at this point, with some Q4 adjustments to happen over the next 1-2 months. International is pretty much set through the end of 2018, with ongoing adjustments for Q1 2019 at this ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 346
Views: 34523

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

For DTW, Premerger NW used to operate a very large 9pm outbound departure bank. During peak summer they’d operate a small 10:30pm bank to short hop destinations in Michigan or just over the central time zone. Post merger DL split operations into a very large 8pm departure bank and a smaller 10pm dep...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 777 retrofit, interesting twist
Replies: 77
Views: 11380

Re: DL 777 retrofit, interesting twist

While 3x3x3 is good, if its just my wife and I traveling I would go out of my way to book an A330 or 767 to get the 2 side for a more pleasant and private flight. I purposely avoided the 777 on a CDG-DTW flight a few years ago for that very reason. Same reason why I have no problems with the MD88/MD...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What's The Next Non-hub Delta 767 Route?
Replies: 55
Views: 6672

Re: What's The Next Non-hub Delta 767 Route?

These are what I consider tangible possibilities, but there are probably others I'm not thinking of CMH-AMS AUS-AMS TPA-AMS LAS-AMS or CDG (wouldn't be on the 767 probably) I heard that DL was considering SJC-Europe last year but it hasn't amounted to anything, and probably won't Yes, very good poi...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

The drop of the seasonal weekly SJU service is a function of PR’s economy, infrastructure, and tourism industry in shambles than anything else. Even before the hurricanes tourism was plummeting there. I honestly have not heard of anyone vacationing there from metro Detroit in years. With the Mexico ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL 777 retrofit, interesting twist
Replies: 77
Views: 11380

Re: DL 777 retrofit, interesting twist

While at first glance this appears to be passenger comfort related, I am sure at the heart of it there is a business case to be made for leaving Y in 3 x 3 x 3 and total capacity under 300. Perhaps it’s the fact they don’t need the extra seats and it enables better yield management. Perhaps there ar...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Today, Friday 6/29 is projected to be the busiest travel day of the year for DTW. The Friday before 4th of July week is typically the peak travel day of the year for DTW in terms of enplanements/passengers.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Northwest Airlines Seattle Focus City?
Replies: 42
Views: 4547

Re: Northwest Airlines Seattle Focus City?

Yep, IND and MKE were built-up as focus cities as a part of their heartland strategy.

To a lesser extent, GRR, MSN, FNT, DSM we’re part of that strategy that received p2p service to DCA, LGA, or Florida.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Northwest Airlines Seattle Focus City?
Replies: 42
Views: 4547

Re: Northwest Airlines Seattle Focus City?

It would fit the definition of the marketing term as focus city for NW. From the time NW and RC merged up through the late 90s the hubs were DTW, MSP, MEM, NRT with de facto focus cities in BOS, SEA, HNL, and ANC (mostly due to cargo), and AMS. BOS lost focus city status when they dropped non AMS TA...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: New Airline at MSN
Replies: 36
Views: 5475

Re: New Airline at MSN

Likely G4 or NK

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta orders 20 CRJ900 with new interiors
Replies: 71
Views: 11989

Re: Delta orders 20 CRJ900 with new interiors

A good chunk of the remaining CR2s in DL's fleet are relatively young. Many of the CR2's that originated with 9E / NW Airlink are from the 2003-2005 time-frame.
The utilization both in terms of hours and cycles are way down from how hard they used to fly them.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Fridays in July & early-August are the peak day of the peak season; the busiest travel days both in terms of a capacity flown and passenger counts fall on Summer Fridays. So the departures on those days reflect the high-water mark throughout the calendar year. Obviously there are some markets, p...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

ehaase wrote:
293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

I wouldn't be surprised after that to eventually see the MD-90s then concentrated down to ATL.

That said, lots of 739, 321, C-Series coming on board over the next 30 months to replace the MD88 capacity.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

FL airports had a drawdown or dispersment in A321 service. The 321 used to strictly fly MCO-ATL but now flies MCO-LGA/JFK/ATL/DTW. TPA-ATL/DTW. RSW-ATL/DTW and FLL-ATL/DTW. DL tends to "flip" the capacity a bit more in summer months. You tend to see more capacity peak on "east - west...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Guys....can we agree to disagree and keep those focused on a discussion about the DL network, DL fleet, DL hubs, and year over year changes. CAN WE STOP TURNING THIS INTO A BICKER-FEST ABOUT DTW or the rantings for or against a particular poster who derails these threads. Keep it contained to the ce...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Comment on category changes since 2014: - 50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ) Across the board down in every fleet type - there are fewer frames in the category on all types. - 2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75) This type has increased - with more frames in fleet since 2014 - 120 seat (73G, 717, 319) Increased slightly...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

MSP: Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference 50 Seat RJ 137 90 -47 2-Class RJ 109 113 4 120 seat 27 74 47 150 seat 132 82 -50 180 seat+ 39 81 42 Widebody 13 7 -6 457 447 -10 SLC: Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference 50 Seat RJ 77 41 -36 2-Class RJ 77 83 6 120 seat 22 30 8 150 seat 56 64...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Some other interesting data that shows the impact of fleet changes and increasing seats per departure. Comparison by aircraft size - 50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ) - 2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75) - 120 seat (73G, 717, 319) - 150 seat (320, 738, M88, M90) - >180 seat (321, 739, 752, 753) - Widebody (332, 333, ...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:27 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type
Replies: 116
Views: 14162

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

I forgot that BNA was an OO maintenance base, hence likely why the last DTW-BNA flight is always a OO CR9. DTW-TYS is mostly CR2, also since its a 9E maintenance base. The last scheduled MD88 flights out of DTW (for now) are a the end of June. Entirely likely they will be scheduled again at some poi...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 6/17/2018:AA Drops ORD-BIS/BOI/COS/RAP/RNO for Winter or More;SXM Cuts;DY Shuffle;EY Pares JFK-AUH
Replies: 87
Views: 11604

Re: OAG Changes 6/17/2018:AA Drops ORD-BIS/BOI/COS/RAP/RNO for Winter or More;SXM Cuts;DY Shuffle;EY Pares JFK-AUH

For all of those upper Midwest and mountain west markets AA has had and always will have a structural disadvantage.

UA has the DEN + ORD connectivity.

DL has the SLC + MSP connectivity.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta to cut Seattle-Hong Kong, announces Seattle-Osaka
Replies: 308
Views: 28142

Re: Delta to cut Seattle-Hong Kong, announces Seattle-Osaka

The opportunity cost for SEA-KIX is much less than SEA-HKG. Due to the increased stage length SEA-HKGvrequired 2 A332 or 777 aircraft to operate. SEA-KIX can be flown with a 1 76W. That alone cuts the cost of the route alone by over 50%. I'd be interested to see how much a difference there is in the...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Ignore, ignore, ignore..... Sorry you are so butthurt about MSP-ICN, but even a 5 year old could see that route coming a mile away. It’s been galley gossip for at least 5 years, back when DL and KE were still just frienemies in SkyTeam. No kidding they reduced capacity by going from 744 to A350. The...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Hmm, I guess it did creep up there a bit, from the FSDan hub count departure threads: DTW (2012) ER4: 16 CRJ: 262 CR7: 45 CR9: 44 E70: 1 E75: 17 D95: 8 319: 24 320: 31 M88: 23 M90: 4 738: 23 752: 25 753: 9 763: 6 764: 3 332: 2 333: 4 777: 3 77L: 1 744: 2 DTW (2014) ER4: 37 CR2: 172 CR7: 43 CR9: 45 E...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Interesting. I am sure the MD-88 will still make an appearance from time to time probably on an ATL turn. The MD-88 was never really that big at DTW post merger anyways. Maybe peaked at around 20 flights a day a few years ago. Lately it’s really only been on a few of the ORD, BWI, PHL, BNA, ATL, STL...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Stop trolling the trolls and ignore the blustering. Its the same thing you have to do when children act-up. I find it ironic that no one ever wants to discuss what is actually going on at DTW day in day in, and instead would rather pontificate about what may or may not happen in the next 1-2-5-10-20...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 6/10/2018: Big NK Network Adjustment
Replies: 73
Views: 10302

Re: OAG Changes 6/10/2018: Big NK Network Adjustment

I don't see this as all that earth-shattering; NK's network and route structure lends itself to having a much softer Sept-Oct-Nov because those are actually rather slow months for leisure travel. The legacies are a bit more isolated from this since Its actually a pretty busy time for business travel...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Aircraft Refurbishment - 2018
Replies: 429
Views: 59973

Re: Delta Aircraft Refurbishment - 2018

The thing that is a bit different about the run-up in fuel right now, is that unlike past run-ups, the economy now is very strong, and the revenue side of the equation is strong in the short-term. Until the cost of fuel impacts the broader economy and related demand for air travel, there isn't likel...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

ELP I assume is largely used by the automotive industry? My former father in law used to connect thru ATL once a week or so to get to ELP, from there they would cross the border to Mexico where the auto plant where he visited was at. I have a few friends at work also who have been talking about thi...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What should UA do to close the gap with DL?
Replies: 233
Views: 22927

Re: What should UA do to close the gap with DL?

15 years ago everyone was gushing about CO because on 737s out of IAH you got a microwaved slice of pizza or a reheated cheeseburger in Y.
Nevermind they were flying ERJs 1500 miles flights. You could do single-connection trans-cons on ERJ's over IAH on CO.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What should UA do to close the gap with DL?
Replies: 233
Views: 22927

Re: What should UA do to close the gap with DL?

The biggest problem is actually perception with the average flier. Perception takes time to change. I liken this very similar to how long it took the US automotive companies to shed their image of poor quality vehicles that they (rightfully) earned in the 1980s/early 90s, By the mid-2000s, for the m...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:05 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 6/3/2018:AA Adds DFW-BUF/DRT/ILM/SRQ,MIA-GSP/TYS;DL LAS-CDG for CES
Replies: 78
Views: 10077

Re: OAG Changes 6/3/2018:AA Adds DFW-BUF/DRT/ILM/SRQ,MIA-GSP/TYS;DL LAS-CDG for CES

Incredible that DTW-MDW on WN has gone from almost hourly to just 3 daily. One can only assume that Detroit-Chicago is now being driven by most people given the drastic cut in service over the years what was once a route filled with DC10s 747s and mainline jets is now mostly RJ's I do think the amo...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

There is a certain segment of leisure demand that is completely price-elastic, and opportunistic, and fully discretionary. These are the people that might otherwise not be making the trip, completely destination agnostic, or might otherwise be spending their money on other things. This is the equiva...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:00 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Here's video that someone took inside the Smith Terminal in 2014, and as you can see theres not much left. Everything that was converted into office space. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqW2hx2Seo I was in MEM this past week, and hadn't been there since about 2007 pre-merger. The main terminal bu...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Smith demolition is supposed to start later this year, but the majority of the work will be in 2019 to bring it down.
This year will supposedly be a bunch of interior prep/utility disconnects/etc.

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 1154
Views: 69277

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

The Berry is completely gone, its been down since about early-April. The North entrance is a lot better and enables better flow, much better signage, and better split to go to the McNamara that doesn't require the immediate lane shift like it used to do. Now if MDOT would finish-up their portion, th...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Widebody Thread - 2018
Replies: 563
Views: 81716

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2018

Is there any issue other than bad luck with the A330-300 cancels this week? Ship 809 on the 23rd AMS-DTW Ship 825 on the 24th FCO-JFK Ship 804 on the 25th MSP-AMS Ship 801 on the 26th DTW-AMS Ship 815 on the 27th MSP-AMS I was curious about whether there are fewer spares and less slack in the fleet...

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by PSU.DTW.SCE
Sat May 26, 2018 2:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Aircraft Refurbishment - 2018
Replies: 429
Views: 59973

Re: Delta Aircraft Refurbishment - 2018

If you thought the 75Ns were bad after the “lite” refurb post merger, you should have seen them prior. They were they definition of “ratty” by about 2007/2008. Once NW exited Ch 11 there were tentative plans to refurb the 757 and 744 fleets. Both got put on hold with the merger and economic downturn...

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