Search found 1378 matches

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by jagraham
Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX 7 Development / Testing / Production - 2024
Replies: 117
Views: 16502

Re: Boeing 737MAX 7 Development / Testing / Production - 2024

The questions are how much life (cycles) is left in the NG 700's, how much extra, if any does that cost? Also, can a Max-8 fit in the airports that are served by the -700's but with blocked seats as an interim measure till the Max-7 eventually arrives? Or are they physically too big? :checkmark: :c...

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by jagraham
Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:34 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024
Replies: 804
Views: 143982

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024

DL in LA is interesting to me....their route structure heavily implies they do much better flying pax to LA than competing for local LA traffic. Sure DL is the largest at LAX, but.... In Q3, of the Top 15 domestic markets from LA, DL was the market leader in only 1 (ATL): LA-SF LA-NYC LA-SEA LA-LAS...

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by jagraham
Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus A321XLR Development / Testing / Production / Deliveries - 2024
Replies: 109
Views: 25815

Re: Airbus A321XLR Development / Testing / Production / Deliveries - 2024

For airline planning that’s not that old. Either way I don’t doubt B6 will expand eventually with WB aircraft. Places like Warsaw, Athens, Prague, Rome, Palermo, Dumbrovik are all markets that can’t be ideally reached even with the XLR. BOS-FCO is about 4,100 nm, for that range the payload would be...

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by jagraham
Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft
Replies: 260
Views: 30369

Re: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft

Wouldn't say that. At LAX: They will get some more space in TBIT when T9 gets built and NH/LH/CP move to T9 At PHX: Plenty of room to grow with the existing facilities and up gauging is likely. At LGA: They just opened a brand new terminal At JFK: Terminal 8 reconstruction (won't increase gate numb...

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by jagraham
Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft
Replies: 260
Views: 30369

Re: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft

Wouldn't say that. At LAX: They will get some more space in TBIT when T9 gets built and NH/LH/CP move to T9 At PHX: Plenty of room to grow with the existing facilities and up gauging is likely. At LGA: They just opened a brand new terminal At JFK: Terminal 8 reconstruction (won't increase gate numb...

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by jagraham
Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft
Replies: 260
Views: 30369

Re: AA orders 85 Airbus A321neo, 85 Boeing 737 MAX 10 and 90 Embraer E175 aircraft

Why would they order the E1 instead of the E2? Scope. The E2 is still too chunky to keep under the scope weight limits. Interestingly, with 90 new E175s, we know that AA is going to be using these 170 mainline aircraft for a MINIMUM of a 120 new aircraft growth for narrowbodies, since AA's scope re...

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by jagraham
Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1009
Views: 159921

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Updated guidance showing 757 drawdown... Interesting…source? Makes sense. There are some members on here that you don't need to (or just don't) ask "Source?" to. 777Mech is one. MO11 is another. n515cr. CALTECH in the United forum is another. And there are several other members in this fo...

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by jagraham
Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?
Replies: 321
Views: 53879

Re: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?

I don't think you fully understand the US Scope Clause rules. No US airline with a regional scope clause in their maine-line contract will every order another A220-100, only A220-300's. The crew costs of an A220-100 are way too high to make it economical. I'm sure Delta will dump their A220-100's i...

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by jagraham
Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?
Replies: 321
Views: 53879

Re: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?

Why do people still have this love affair with the A220 and American? New type, new ratings, new parts, new equipment, new simulators. I see a virtually zero chance of that happening. Everyone said the same thing when AA was rumored to be becoming an A32x operator. All AA did was make the largest o...

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by jagraham
Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?
Replies: 321
Views: 53879

Re: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?

With 41 Billion + in debt load, how will this affect their costs to acquire these aircraft? I would think a large wide-body order would have a very negative affect on their stock price? Is there a way for them to not explode their debt at this point? I'm not trying to insinuate anything here, just ...

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by jagraham
Tue Feb 27, 2024 2:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?
Replies: 321
Views: 53879

Re: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?

AA is still getting from under its debt load. Maybe the LUS 319s need replacement, but what I am finding is that they are from 2013-2015. Replacement is not urgent. As for the 772s, they are older (11 in 1999, 16 in 2000, and 12 in 2001), but US airlines are not ME3 airlines. They will fly a plane ...

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by jagraham
Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?
Replies: 321
Views: 53879

Re: AA Aircraft Order Coming - Return of the A350?

AA is still getting from under its debt load. Maybe the LUS 319s need replacement, but what I am finding is that they are from 2013-2015. Replacement is not urgent. As for the 772s, they are older (11 in 1999, 16 in 2000, and 12 in 2001), but US airlines are not ME3 airlines. They will fly a plane f...

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by jagraham
Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Is the 787-10 failure or underestimated
Replies: 257
Views: 38895

Re: Is the 787-10 failure or underestimated

When you look at the operators of the 787-10 (SQ 31, 22 delivered; UA 31, 21 delivered; BA 18, 7 delivered; NH 14, 3 delivered; KE 10, 0 delivered EY 30, 10 delivered) many of the big international operators have committed to the 787-10. Even EK has plans for some, although their 787 plans are all o...

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by jagraham
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub
Replies: 481
Views: 58910

Re: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub

With what gates? Seriously? I didn't say it would be easy. Without a retrenchment by WN, UA would need a terminal expansion. Not going to happen, CLT is AA’s 2nd or 3rd most profitable hub. Terminal is being expanded. But no way for UA to make it a hub and boot out AA. Not impossible . . AA booted ...

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by jagraham
Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub
Replies: 481
Views: 58910

Re: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub

I am 100% sure that United would love to start a hub in BNA, but Southwest dominates and saturates the market, while AA sees it as a focus with a big loyalty base going back decades.. UA isn’t going to run either out. The point would not be to run either out (if UA were going to do that, they shoul...

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by jagraham
Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub
Replies: 481
Views: 58910

Re: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub

I feel like the problem with MCO isn't just that it's a saturated leisure market... A possibly bigger problem is that a ridiculous percentage of the origin/destination for any southeastern hub will be from Florida, and MCO is too close to all the non-panhandle Florida stations to have much of any l...

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by jagraham
Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub
Replies: 481
Views: 58910

Re: Rumors of Possible New United (UA) Hub

I feel like the problem with MCO isn't just that it's a saturated leisure market... A possibly bigger problem is that a ridiculous percentage of the origin/destination for any southeastern hub will be from Florida, and MCO is too close to all the non-panhandle Florida stations to have much of any l...

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by jagraham
Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing / Production - 2024
Replies: 145
Views: 25341

Re: Boeing 777X Testing / Production - 2024

Have there been any 77x flight tests in 2024?

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by jagraham
Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US carriers 4th quarter 2023 earnings
Replies: 247
Views: 41050

Re: US carriers 4th quarter 2023 earnings

If oil had been $100 / bbl, we would be calling AA mgmt geniuses. Since oil is $60 to $75 per bbl, DL's choice of planes like used 737-900ERs - which no one else was interested in - and is not that much less efficient than MAXs and NEOs - has them looking like geniuses. As for replacements, there is...

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by jagraham
Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024
Replies: 804
Views: 143982

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024

Now that 2023 USDOT On-Time data is available and I finally found the time to run an analysis, here's a time plot of the Delta ATL hub banks for the sample day of Thursday, July 20, 2023 (Note that this is again domestic-only) https://i.imgur.com/8377fSV.png A comparison to July 21, 2022 (however t...

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by jagraham
Tue Jan 23, 2024 12:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US carriers 4th quarter 2023 earnings
Replies: 247
Views: 41050

Re: US carriers 4th quarter 2023 earnings

How come American is doing so bad vs. Delta and United?! Is it lower yields and revenue or they cant control costs? I thought I remember seeing on A.Net that AA would post a large charge for their new Pilot Contract. Similar to what DL and UA did earlier. As usual, they[url][/url] will report GAAP ...

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by jagraham
Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1009
Views: 159921

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

Congratulations to Delta as they are now the largest airline in the world by an “active fleet” measurement. According to my paid subscription fleet service site (ATDB) Delta has now surpassed American with 959 active fleet versus American at 954. But United is growing faster than both with 942. So ...

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by jagraham
Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Atlas Air 747-8 - Engine fire, returns to MIA
Replies: 44
Views: 11278

Re: Atlas Air 747-8 - Engine fire, returns to MIA

2 questions. 1. Does a compressor stall warrant a "Pan Pan Pan" call? You got a fire warning in the cockpit. The fire isn't going out after you blow a bottle. It takes you 2 minutes to get the fire under control. Your loadmaster sees a softball-sized hole in the engine. It's an uncontaine...

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by jagraham
Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:37 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

Project Sunrise A351s have 322t MTOW, an ACT, and a 250 pax limit. The MTOW increase and pax decrease are necessary to carry the fuel to fly across Australia after flying to Australia nonstop (which a 789 can do) . DL won't be flying like that so the current 319t spec and no ACT should be sufficien...

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by jagraham
Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

But DL will have plenty of A339s for that route and others like it. And the older A333s can do West Coast to HI just fine, or East Coast to Europe.. Noting that the A339s will beat the A333s on fuel when the trip is over 5 hours. Is the implication here that the A333 outperforms the A339 on fuel ef...

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by jagraham
Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: DL orders 20 A350-1000

Per Delta's own site: A339 - 6,995 miles (11,257 km) A359 - 7,275 miles (11,708 km) 280 miles is marginal to me :-) . Not sure where the 1K longer range is coming from but it looks impressive, if true. EDIT: I see the 35L's have a range of 8160 miles, which is indeed 1,165 miles more in range. But ...

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by jagraham
Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

The oldest PMNW A330 is 21 years old. If the B763’s are anything to go by, those PMNW A330’s will be around for a while. Now that they are fully depreciated, I assume they will take over most of the B763 flying whilst they are displaced by A339’s/A350’s. For range and economy reasons, about half of...

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by jagraham
Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL orders 20 A350-1000
Replies: 399
Views: 78247

Re: Reuters: DL to order A350-1000

While DL has practically written the book on how to refurbish, refresh, and keep older aircraft flying and looking new, the 763s can't fly forever. Didn't DL say that sometime between 2026 and 2028 they are going to have to start parking those jets? Given that DL has over 40 of them, they will need...

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by jagraham
Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airline Hub Destination Analysis: AA/B6/DL/UA - Q1-3 of 2024
Replies: 57
Views: 7780

Re: Airline Hub Destination Analysis: AA/B6/DL/UA - Q1-3 of 2024

I love seeing MSP as Delta's second busiest hub (by destinations at least). I assume that means, since they also have a high percentage of mainline flights, that MSP is Delta's second busiest hub by passengers carried as well? Yes, this has been the case since Covid. DTW’s growth has been slowest o...

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by jagraham
Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

United has been the largest in NYC ever since it merged with CO. Under Gordon, CO quietly grew EWR. He built out the People's Express Terminal C, took over TWA's pier in the old Terminal A and added any gates they could get their hand on all while adding flights as the airport wasn't slot-controlle...

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by jagraham
Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

Simple answer would be that of the Big Three (American, United, and Delta), Delta's the only one not to have an ORD hub (Concourse L in Terminal 3 used to be their ORD hub for a time in the 1980s and 1990s, but they closed it because it was too costly to operate and they were at too much of a disad...

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by jagraham
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska / Hawaiian Air Merger Discussion
Replies: 1206
Views: 168584

Re: Rumor: AS to acquire HA; operate as separate brand.

Given Alaska's reluctance for Airbus aircraft (i.e. A321s going to AA), what will end up happening to HA's A330s? HA's A330s should stay, unless the financing terms were bad. AS has enough to digest without a wholesale fleet change. Especially when widebody supply is quite limited. The A321s are a ...

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by jagraham
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: HA Launches HNL-SLC
Replies: 114
Views: 16269

Re: HA Launches HNL-SLC

What HA's long term goals were are toast with the Alaska announcement.

Now we see what Alaska plans . . will they keep the A321s or is this another VQ in the making? Will AK cut their Hawaii traffic in favor of Hawaii?? Whatever the case, the landscape has changed big time.

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by jagraham
Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:14 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: HA Launches HNL-SLC
Replies: 114
Views: 16269

Re: HA Launches HNL-SLC

SLC - HNL for DL is about connections. PDEW is almost meaningless there. And considering BYU-Hawaii and the Polynesian Cultural Center, there is a lot of Mormon traffic between the two.

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by jagraham
Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Dubai Air Show 2023 - Boeing Orders and General Discussion Thread
Replies: 271
Views: 68193

Re: Dubai Air Show 2023 - Boeing Orders and General Discussion Thread

I reckon the B778 is preferred for a second daily frequency to places such as GRU LAX SFO AKL BOS, reinstating EZE and possibly open BOG SCL ATL DTW CLT. But ordering 35 ULH planes when currently they have 10 B77Ls is a bit strange indeed especially since the B779 can perform 90% of those destinati...

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by jagraham
Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JetBlue Wants KLM Out of JFK Over Slot Dispute
Replies: 403
Views: 53383

Re: JetBlue Wants KLM Out of JFK Over Slot Dispute

You keep emphasizing the point about wide-body fleets. No one is preventing you from booking flights on the plethora of major carriers flying everything from Dreamliners to the A380. B6 doesn't operate those fleet types, so they will not meet your travel requirements. Also as a Delta FF, what's you...

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by jagraham
Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

Higher MTOW won't help with the JNB flights. Plus DL already uses their 280T A359s on JNB. MTOW is a problem, but altitude is a bigger problem. A359s hit max tire speed long before they can take off full. DL could help matters with high speed tires like they did for the 77L, but they don't seem int...

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by jagraham
Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

DL extending use of the ex-LA 359s on LAX-AKL until late-April 2024 now, before reverting to their own lower-density 359s for NS 24. I wonder if this is because they're seeing strong demand? It is an increase of about 30 or so seats on the route, per day, for April 2024. https://www.aeroroutes.com/...

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by jagraham
Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

You don't think that Chicago, the third largest metro area in the US, which happens to have pretty decent Scandinavian (particularly Swedish) ties, can sustain service on SK because of the loss of UA's (minimal) feed? Same metro doesn't seemingly justify direct flights on this very airline to the s...

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by jagraham
Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines Fleet - 2023
Replies: 4415
Views: 933413

Re: United Airlines Fleet - 2023

Thank you! This is a much more accurate representation of what will actually likely happen with UA’s fleet, not that one published a month or two ago showing UA nearly doubling its fleet by 2030 and operating 1,600+ aircraft. Jeremy There are a couple of issues with the chart; first being the assum...

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by jagraham
Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines Fleet - 2023
Replies: 4415
Views: 933413

Re: United Airlines Fleet - 2023

Saw this analysis of deliveries vs retirements , based on current order book, and thought it interesting: https://visualapproach.io/content/uploads/2023/10/UA-30-year.jpg Thank you! This is a much more accurate representation of what will actually likely happen with UA’s fleet, not that one publish...

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by jagraham
Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 787 Production/Deliveries - 2023
Replies: 1647
Views: 453072

Re: Boeing 787 Production/Deliveries - 2023

https://leehamnews.com/2023/05/31/boein ... mbly-line/
-->

pabloeing wrote:
With the last big B787 orders.......¿Is possible a line production of B787 in everett again?


Boeing is working on a second FAL in Charleston

https://leehamnews.com/2023/05/31/boein ... mbly-line/

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by jagraham
Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: IAG in talks to replace BA 777s
Replies: 330
Views: 63303

Re: IAG in talks to replace BA 777s

For those of us who are interested, but not deeply invested in the issue,, we hear the 787-10 described as a "CASM-monster" but how does it compare with the A350-900 or -1000 in terms of weights and capacity? What part of the comparative data makes it (in the eyes of ANetters, at least ) ...

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by jagraham
Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2023
Replies: 3331
Views: 714421

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2023

Related. I think there could be a market for an A330-800 with a much lower MTOW, derated engines, etc. to target the 767-300ER replacement market, albeit in a slightly larger airframe. They could retain, but deactivate the center wing tank. The idea is any of these features could be re-activated if...

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by jagraham
Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: United orders 50 additional B787 and 60 A321s
Replies: 223
Views: 39253

Re: Media: More B787's and A321s for United?

Considering how the 77HDs are configured, UA can get close with a 788 or equal it with a 789. The 78J would be beneficial if premium economy was to be expanded. When UA reconfigured 4 77Es into HD configuration and used IPTE seats up front, it signaled that UA didn't feel the need to put Polaris in...

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by jagraham
Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: United orders 50 additional B787 and 60 A321s
Replies: 223
Views: 39253

Re: Media: More B787's and A321s for United?

I think more than a dozen will be configured for domestic use. United has over 20 configured domestic 77A/Es. In a domestic configuration I think the 787-10 should be able to get between 340-350 total passengers onboard. I think we will see probably 20-25 frames in a domestic configuration for EWR-...

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by jagraham
Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2023
Replies: 3331
Views: 714421

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2023

Has Dal enforced or purchased any of their A220 options lately? Related. I think there could be a market for an A330-800 with a much lower MTOW, derated engines, etc. to target the 767-300ER replacement market, albeit in a slightly larger airframe. They could retain, but deactivate the center wing ...

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by jagraham
Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: United orders 50 additional B787 and 60 A321s
Replies: 223
Views: 39253

Re: Updated: United orders 50 additional B787 and 60 A321s

Assuming 789s or 781s get a “domestic” conifg, I wonder if it will include a lie flat product in F? My understanding is that the current 77A/77E fleet is an opportunistic play to retain the old J product, but for all other purposes it is domestic F. I honestly could see UA not making a full 777A re...

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by jagraham
Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated: United orders 50 additional B787 and 60 A321s
Replies: 223
Views: 39253

Re: Media: More B787's and A321s for United?

Anybody thinking about dozens of UA widebodys in a domestic config? Bueller? Bueller? I think more than a dozen will be configured for domestic use. United has over 20 configured domestic 77A/Es. In a domestic configuration I think the 787-10 should be able to get between 340-350 total passengers o...

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by jagraham
Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023
Replies: 4249
Views: 934708

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2023

jagraham wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
I'm not seeing any 717s out of LGA, to BOS or ORD, for a variety of dates I've put in over the next 90 days.


Did you see A220s? I saw an A220 at ORD today (10/1)


Found it - the 9am departure from LGA (1022 arrival to ORD) is an A221

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