Search found 461 matches

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

Those routes actually have enough passengers willing to splurge on J. Those destinations aren’t as low yielding as people think they are all the time. quote="alan3"] You missed everything about yield, which ultimately determines air service in a city. Curious...I know this is a rather elem...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

You definitely don’t understand how corporate sales and joint ventures are supposed to work. BA has, in Manchester, a low share of traffic. The businesses and other customers there in Manchester aren’t loyal to BA in any meaningful way given that they have so few flights and so few seats. Without th...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

You missed everything about yield, which ultimately determines air service in a city. Wow, this thread slid off the rails pretty quickly, didn't it? So to summarize the posts so far: MAN is a great big city with limited cultural and tourist appeal, at least compared to London, Edinburgh and apparent...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

Manchester is a nice city and a gateway to beautiful places for sure. Doesn’t mean that it produces the yields necessary for high cost airlines to allocate their planes there when they can send them to other places that generate higher yields. People judging MAN for Manchester city alone are forgett...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

BA and AA had no problem Filling planes to nyc. The issue is that the fares in Manchester are not high enough to make it profitable, at their cost structures, to do so. quote="alan3"] Edinburgh is a global tourism destination. Nobody in their right mind will go to Manchester on holidays. E...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

Yes I know. It’s all transfer traffic. That’s the point. BA simply doesn’t have much of a presence in Manchester. It doesn’t have a large enough presence to support routes operated by its jv partners because it simply doesn’t have a big presence in Manchester. American can not depend on BA, its JV p...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

London, EDI, GLA. Those cities have higher yield. In addition, there are high yield, selective seasonal flights as well, hence all the additional flights EDI gets in the summer. As somebody who has worked in various airlines and has actually measured the yields and tried to make Manchester work, I c...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

BA also has very very limited POS presence in the Manchester area. They fly to London, Billund and Gothenburg with some seasonal sun destinations, according to wikipedia. http://www.airliners.net/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=20638371 No strong point of sale in the Manchester region. It...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

Which is for the reasons I've mentioned in my posts above - there simply isnt the volume of paid business class traffic into / out of Manchester as there is to other cities in the UK, and no big influx of tourists either to offset, at least on a seasonal basis, that dearth. Manchester produces low y...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

There is no biz traffic. The point of sale is all Manchester. There is not the type of business traffic in Manchester that pays for J class tickets to NYC. The only business traffic that pays for J seats in Manchester is pharma, and that goes to Philadelphia and Newark specifically (hence UA can mak...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?
Replies: 100
Views: 5936

Re: Why can't AA make JFK-MAN work but it can JFK-EDI? And also UA from ORD & IAD to MAN?

The fact is this - Manchester, while a large city, doesnt produce high yields. The industries there simply do not produce travel that pays for lots of business class tickets. And Manchester simply does not offer the appeal for inbound tourists or for inbound business people. Airlines flying from Man...

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by jasoncrh
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Kentucky Aviation Thread 2018
Replies: 53
Views: 2985

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread 2018

While I love the enthusiasm, I really do not think that SDF will be in the running for any focus-style operation any time soon. While there are connections available at some of those other focus cities that are mentioned, those airlines have them mainly to target and serve the local market. SDF simp...

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by jasoncrh
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Kentucky Aviation Thread 2018
Replies: 53
Views: 2985

Re: Kentucky Aviation Thread 2018

Just for the lowest of low January and February season. I bet they'll be back up to daily in March for spring break and then through the summer and fall high seasons...

ibthebigd wrote:
But WN dropped PHX to once weekly

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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by jasoncrh
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Clarification on KLM service to Boston in 2019
Replies: 17
Views: 2782

Re: Clarification on KLM service to Boston in 2019

KLM never flew to Boston. It was always northwest metal.

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by jasoncrh
Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:53 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors
Replies: 54
Views: 6130

Re: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors

Those are codeshare flights, not operated by Emirates. That's different than cabotage. And they can only be sold in conjunction with a connection to an Emirates-operated flight. If you went to the Emirates web site and tried to book a ticket from JRO to DAR(as I just did to confirm) it wouldnt let y...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors
Replies: 54
Views: 6130

Re: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors

You'd literally have to buy a ticket to Australia to be able to do this. Which is hundreds if not thousands of dollars more (depending on class purchased) than a simple NYC - LAX ticket. Qantas is fine and all, but they're not THAT good, and not worth the hassle. And no, they'd definitely charge you...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors
Replies: 54
Views: 6130

Re: foreign airlines that fly & sell U.S. domestic sectors

Etihad does not fly to Kilimanjaro. Never has. Nor does Emirates. So neither one offers any cabotage service DAR-JRO. Emirates flies to Dar Es Salaam, and Etihad has been in Dar Es Salaam as well, but I think Etihad is leaving it soon (though I could be wrong on this one). Either way, neither carrie...

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by jasoncrh
Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why is AUH Midfield taking so long compared to the new IST?
Replies: 6
Views: 2320

Re: Why is AUH Midfield taking so long compared to the new IST?

The government ran low on money during the period that fue prices declined. Didn’t have enough money to put toward construction. End of story.

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by jasoncrh
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:37 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 10/8/2017: VX Gone, Big SJU Cuts, AS Suspends PDX-MCI/STL for Winter
Replies: 64
Views: 12171

Re: OAG Changes 10/8/2017: VX Gone, Big SJU Cuts, AS Suspends PDX-MCI/STL for Winter

The JV cannot just do that/ force Jet Airways todo that. Jet Airways is not part of any JV with AF or KL, and they have not received that approval from the US government, the EU government, or the Indian government. Until they have that approval there is no "JV forcing Jet" to do anything....

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by jasoncrh
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:56 pm
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: Etihad Business & Business Studio from Munich to Tokyo
Replies: 11
Views: 6506

Re: Etihad Business & Business Studio from Munich to Tokyo

Why are you capitalizing all the words? Pre Departure Drink isnt capitalized. Most of the words you use are not Capitalized/ should not be Capitalized. it's odd and Throws Me Off while reading.

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by jasoncrh
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:53 pm
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: Etihad Business & Business Studio from Munich to Tokyo
Replies: 11
Views: 6506

Re: Etihad Business & Business Studio from Munich to Tokyo

Why are you capitalizing all the words? Pre Departure Drink isnt capitalized. Most of the words you use are not Capitalized/ should not be Capitalized. it's odd and Throws Me Off while reading.

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by jasoncrh
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DFW-FCO/AMS Performance
Replies: 21
Views: 4416

Re: DFW-FCO/AMS Performance

Yes. Why wouldnt they? Most airlines have some sort of interline agreement with other carriers, regardless of alliance affiliation. AA does plenty of interline connections beyond AMS, FRA, all their European destinations. It might not be oneworld, but they certainly do offer connections, and a lot o...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DFW-FCO/AMS Performance
Replies: 21
Views: 4416

Re: DFW-FCO/AMS Performance

AA does plenty of interline connections beyond AMS, FRA, all their European destinations. It might not be oneworld, but they certainly do offer connections, and a lot of the passengers do travel onward beyond AMS on KL and FRA respectively. Every time I've gotten off a DFW - FRA flight there have be...

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by jasoncrh
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:53 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Route Planning as a Career
Replies: 10
Views: 1873

Re: Route Planning as a Career

It is not in revenue management at most large airlines. It's its own department, and depending on the size of the airline it can be large. Usually there's a planning side- those who run lots of data, and do forecasting- to decide what cities to serve and frequencies. Then there's the scheduling side...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years
Replies: 22
Views: 2907

Re: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years

Delta has repeatedly said that Atlanta, Detroit MSP are their 3 most profitable hubs. They continually point out that ATL is their strongest performer. Excess capacity is what they have used to build NYC/LAX/SEA. Yeah - thanks for reminding me. ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC generate high yields / profits, and DL ...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:25 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest 737-300 retirement
Replies: 205
Views: 33086

Re: Southwest 737-300 last day of operations today

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... 7-classics

So how many MAX start tomorrow?
-->

MAX flying starts sunday, not tomorrow.

727LOVER wrote:

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years
Replies: 22
Views: 2907

Re: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years

They dont file that in SEC filings. You can, though, take DOT data and start putting tables together showing the yields for traffic in the various cities. You can then read between the lines a little bit and notice where the high yield traffic is versus the low yield traffic. if you want, you can al...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years
Replies: 22
Views: 2907

Re: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years

Yeah - thanks for reminding me. ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC generate high yields / profits, and DL uses those to buy business in the ultra competitive markets NYC/SEA/LAX. Having three fortress hubs with minimal competition which allows them to make a TON of money, money that pays for the extremely high costs o...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years
Replies: 22
Views: 2907

Re: Delta Strategy for the last 10 years

Having three fortress hubs with minimal competition which allows them to make a TON of money, money that pays for the extremely high costs of buying into the NYC and LAX markets. When you look at the yields they're getting in NYC/LAX/SEA it's still VERY low, which indicates that they might not be as...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA
Replies: 33
Views: 6842

Re: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA

AA already tried this. It starts ORD- DUS a few years ago, with the hope/ expectation that AB DUS presence would help them. it didn't. it failed. as I and others have posted, AA just doesn't get the German point of sale high yield traffic - LH group has it locked up. US did well with their CLT and F...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA
Replies: 33
Views: 6842

Re: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA

fully committed means they dont have spare aircraft. If they want to add something they have to take it away somewhere else. That means that AA would have to judge that it can get a better return on flying 1-2 aircraft on these routes than they do in other markets. There are no slot constraints proh...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA
Replies: 33
Views: 6842

Re: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA

Their fleet is fully committed. Also, these flights are largely full of Germans originating in Germany. AA has a terrible point of sale presence in Germany. It wouldnt work. But I'm sure if AA wanted to fly these routes and had the aircraft and felt that these routes were a better use of their aircr...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA
Replies: 33
Views: 6842

Re: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA

what do you mean a "cornerstone German - US route"? What does that mean? LH is operating it when it starts, but has said that it will transfer the route to Eurowings next summer. While Berlin is indeed the capital, it is overall poorer than Munich/Frankfurt, and needs a high density layout...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA
Replies: 33
Views: 6842

Re: LH Announces TXL-JFK, DUS-MIA

Germans love going to Miami. There has been a DUS - MIA link for over 30, if not more, years, on one airline or another. Germans want to go on vacation in Miami, and Lufthansa/ Eurowings is simply stepping in where AirBerlin left off. Surprised they announced DUS-MIA over JFK/ORD. IIRC DL only has D...

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by jasoncrh
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American adds limited-time MIA-BUF/RSW during holiday season
Replies: 59
Views: 4270

Re: American adds limited-time MIA-BUF/RSW during holiday season

Interesting. They had flown MIA - RSW for many years (and I had indeed taken that flight as a connection). I didnt realize it had been discontinued.

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by jasoncrh
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:09 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL new summer 2018 transatlantic flights
Replies: 192
Views: 25866

Re: IRe: DL new summer 2018 transatlantic flights

Delta's press release announces the added DTW-CDG service. Delta themselves say it's being added. does not matter AT ALL what USA Today says It is what it is in the USAToday article it lists every addition in the Delta press release except for the added DTW-CDG capacity. I'd believe delta.com before...

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by jasoncrh
Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL new summer 2018 transatlantic flights
Replies: 192
Views: 25866

Re: DL new summer 2018 transatlantic flights

Again , how does IND impact PIT? PIT is on a 757 and has operated on its own without subsidy for many years. What "give and take" are you referring to below? What do you mean when you say "...seems reasonable for DL to axe in order to direct funds to make IND - CDG work.". What d...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA markets not served from DFW
Replies: 106
Views: 11034

Re: AA markets not served from DFW

AA does NOT fly to Providence from Dulles. That's American. Washington DC National, but not Dulles

Airplanebrain wrote:
Providence, Rhode Island. Served by Philadephia, Charlotte, Chicago and Dulles. No idea why DFW doesn't serve direct.

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Frontier Announcing Multiple New Routes
Replies: 161
Views: 18284

Re: Frontier Announcing Multiple New Routes

SDF-DEN added 4x/ week from May 7. not sure how it'll work s the web site doesn't seem to allow / sell any connectivity - to
Denver only. Best of luck!

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA markets not served from DFW
Replies: 106
Views: 11034

Re: AA markets not served from DFW

Nantucket. Martha's Vineyard.

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by jasoncrh
Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Korean Air axes Houston
Replies: 53
Views: 11618

Re: Korean Air axes Houston

Reaching much? Continental left sky team for star alliance in 2009/2010. Korean air started Houston in 2014. Absolutely no relation Houston was never a focus city for delta. What are you talking about? They only ever flew to their hubs. Still only fly to their hubs. Korean did not start Houston with...

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by jasoncrh
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Korean Air axes Houston
Replies: 53
Views: 11618

Re: Korean Air axes Houston

Houston was never a focus city for delta. What are you talking about? They only ever flew to their hubs. Still only fly to their hubs. Korean did not start Houston with any expectation it would get feed from delta. It thought it could get pax heading to Seoul and the large volume of people headed to...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Would UA and/or AA adopt a similar p2p/focus city strategy to keep up with DL?
Replies: 71
Views: 10035

Re: Would UA and/or AA adopt a similar p2p/focus city strategy to keep up with DL?

In the 1980s, AirCal had the San Jose hub. AA first started building a hub on the back of that acquisition in the 1980s. Then shut it down. Then in the 1990s, AA bought Reno Air and briefly had a hub/ presence in San Jose again through 2001/2002. Then shut it down again. AA had it twice. After AA bo...

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by jasoncrh
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United opens new summer seasonal routes from EWR to OPO, KEF and ZRH as well as route extensions
Replies: 90
Views: 14399

Re: United opens new summer seasonal routes!

they've announced the times for SFOZRH in the press release above. SFO ZRH leaves at 2:10PM. ZRH SFO arrives back to SFO at 12:40PM "was first curious as to what aircraft would be used on SFO-ZRH. I expected a 763 but the 787 is a great surprise! I wonder if any of the shorter transatlantic rou...

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by jasoncrh
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 9/10/2017: UA Adds EWR-BGR, ORD-CGI, ORD-UIN, Resumes ORD-PBI
Replies: 31
Views: 8645

Re: OAG Changes 9/10/2017: UA Adds EWR-BGR, ORD-CGI, ORD-UIN, Resumes ORD-PBI

The JV covers HKG. It does not cover the rest of China Thanks Enilria! TransWorldOne wrote: Looks like DL continues to struggle to offer daily nonstop service on the SEA-HKG route. I would think they with no nonstop competition this would be a slam dunk for them. Apparently not. This is one of the S...

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by jasoncrh
Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WOW Launching DFW
Replies: 47
Views: 7264

Re: WOW Launching DFW

nothing to do at all with an Icelandic community - all has to do with Metroplexers looking for a bargain basement price to Europe for their summer vacation.


BC77008 wrote:
WOW! Didn't see this coming! This is a big win for Dallas' HUGE Icelandic community...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Cathay Pacific multiple "beer related" new destinations imminent UPDATE: CX announces HKG-DUB, HKG-BRU and HKG-CPH
Replies: 264
Views: 37414

Re: Cathay Pacific multiple "beer related" new destinations imminent UPDATE: CX announces HKG-DUB, HKG-BRU and HKG-CPH

Has there been any announcement if any routes/ destinations that have been pulled? there was speculation that DUS, PEK and DPS would leave the CX network. Any updates?

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by jasoncrh
Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American drops JFK-MAN
Replies: 110
Views: 19525

Re: American drops JFK-MAN

Some thoughts- Thomas cook and virgin have greater inroads in the Manchester POS leisure market than BA, and this is primarily a leisure route? Not much US POS travel to Manchester from NYC. PHL has worked for a long time due to the paid local pharma J business between phl and man, then just fill up...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WOW Air adds KEF-CVG, STL, DTW & CLE!
Replies: 171
Views: 22391

Re: WOW Air adds KEF-CVG, STL, DTW & CLE!

Please explain. Again, it's not just about KEF, it's about KEF plus low fare access to Europe. Why do you think this cannot be sustained - at least one flight? Do you know what the daily passenger numbers are to / from Europe from CLE? Are you aware of how price can stimulate demand? Please explain ...

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by jasoncrh
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX
Replies: 123
Views: 17834

Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "di...

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