Search found 735 matches

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by KGRB
Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024
Replies: 1005
Views: 159603

Re: Delta Air Lines Fleet - 2024

AdEd wrote:
What a shame 3934's first flight is to MKE, a nearly two-hour flight, despite having no IFE.

It's not really any different than the IFE-less 717, which DL operates on many missions ~2 hours, including ATL-MSN.

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by KGRB
Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit Aviation - 2023
Replies: 1328
Views: 204954

Re: Detroit Aviation - 2023

IND Tomorrow, DL is running 3x DTW-IND, with 1 being mainline (DRJ) and the other 2 CRJ. Tomorrow, UA is running 5x ORD-IND, with all being RJs. Tomorrow, AA is running 5x ORD-IND, with 2 being mainline and the rest RJs. I didn't have the time to go through all of your cherry-picked examples, but y...

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by KGRB
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Network Thread - 2021
Replies: 1662
Views: 253211

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wisconsin airports are getting some love with this latest schedule load. MSN is going from 9 flights a day (all CR9 or CR7) to 14 per day, with an A321 and a few 717s thrown into the mix. And GRB is getting a daily 717 to ATL in June, the first time that station has seen scheduled mainline since wel...

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by KGRB
Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:59 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 2020 NFL Charters
Replies: 111
Views: 21963

Re: 2020 NFL Charters

I think one reason the Packers used two planes (IIRC, it would've been a combination of either 737/757/A321) was what could be accommodated at either ATW or GBY. Also, the Indianapolis Colts typically used two NBs for their DL charters over the past few seasons, as I recall. The Packers exclusively...

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by KGRB
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 34
Views: 5630

Re: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2020

I suspect the reason UA is choosing to suspend GRB over ATW is because of the ZW maintenance base in ATW. It is hard to believe that CWA and EAU will have more UA flights than GRB (if the exemption is approved.) Wonder if the 550's will operate out of ATW now? I doubt it. With the schedule reduction...

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by KGRB
Tue May 21, 2019 9:23 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why Didn't DL Order the MD-95 & Save Long Beach Assembly?
Replies: 15
Views: 4300

Re: Why Didn't DL Order the MD-95 & Save Long Beach Assembly?

So why didn't this love story pan out in the 1990s? Simply put, DL was in love with the CRJ-200 more. What started out as a replacement for the SAAB, Brazillia, and ATR ended up replacing mainline on myriad routes that were previously flown by DC-9s and 737-200s. By the mid-2000s CRJs were flying r...

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by KGRB
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased
Replies: 114
Views: 22805

Re: Midwest Express Revival Plans, Office Space Leased

I brainstormed the A220 and Midwest. The 3 by 2 seating could really come in handy the more I think about it! For example, the 2 seat side could be the premium seating with say a little extra legroom by removing a row? And the economy seating could be used on the 3 seat side? Of course, throw in th...

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by KGRB
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DL rebrand in the works ? (Going more purple?)
Replies: 44
Views: 12868

Re: DL rebrand in the works ? (Going more purple?)

Hate the new uniform colors. The red was much nicer Previous uniforms much better. The red was very distinctive. I'm puzzled as to why people are lamenting the loss of red from the Delta uniform. Red still plays a prominent, if not larger, part of the new uniform. It was the navy blue that was ditc...

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by KGRB
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:44 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: How many US states have you visited?
Replies: 91
Views: 10342

Re: How many US states have you visited?

31/50 + the District of Columbia: Arizona - I lived here years ago, so I've been to many cities in AZ. Arkansas - I spent a night in Jonesboro once. California - Flown into LAX, SFO, and SJC; visited SAN by car. Colorado - I've driven through CO and I've flown into DEN. Florida - Flown into MCO, TPA...

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by KGRB
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Big 3 (AA,DL,UA) Regional Airlines -2019
Replies: 103
Views: 16113

Re: Big 3 (AA,DL,UA) Regional Airlines -2019

I think this year we are going to see some interesting moves in this space. As a side and pure speculation is the Compass advertising PHX on their website. I wonder if it is possible that there is a play with Mesa and Compass? It is an interesting year for the regionals. Compass has had a (pretty s...

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by KGRB
Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 2342
Views: 182902

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

While we are on the subject of concourses at the MacNamara, does anyone know if the airport or Delta have a master plan to demolish/rebuild/repurpose Concourse C? It had been a couple of years since I walked down C, so I took a stroll through there last week and I noticed that they have more of the ...

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by KGRB
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:20 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Anyone ever flown rare types?
Replies: 127
Views: 8915

Re: Anyone ever flown rare types?

Some of these types were rare at the time. Others are only rare now. Dornier 328 Jet: SkyWay Airlines (Midwest Express Connection) 0994001 Avro RJ-85: Mesaba Airlines (Northwest Jet Airlink) 1113240 McDonnell Douglas DC-9-30: Northwest Airlines 0841866 McDonnell Douglas DC-9-50: Northwest Airlines, ...

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by KGRB
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Detroit air service discussion - 2018
Replies: 2342
Views: 182902

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

DL’s market share in the Midwest continues to shrink and I’ll bet that will continue to accelerate as it tries to push traffic from places like GRB and SBN on large regional jets trough ATL, removing capacity from DTW and MSP. I have seen this argument being made before about capacity being shifted...

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by KGRB
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Questions about old Airways Magazine article about DL no longer going to order Boeing aircrafts
Replies: 24
Views: 3874

Re: Questions about old Airways Magazine article about DL no longer going to order Boeing aircrafts

The alleged anti-Boeing bias at Delta was associated with the NW management team that moved to DL with the merger. Of course the since cancelled 787 order was also inherited via the merger. Was Dick Anderson the CEO of NW when the 787 order was placed? It seemed to me that DL was a Boeing airline a...

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by KGRB
Thu May 03, 2018 12:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta shifting SkyWest flights to LGA
Replies: 32
Views: 7203

Re: Delta shifting SkyWest flights to LGA (New York (La Guardia) - USA) (New York (La Guardia) - USA)

Any difference on these OO 175s compared to the older 175s in service on the West Coast ? The777Man The 175SC seats 70, rather than 76 like the other EMB175s in the Delta Connection fleet. Also, all of the SkyWest 175s (SC and non-SC) have the newer "enhanced winglets." The Compass and Re...

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by KGRB
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest
Replies: 231
Views: 22951

Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Most of the Northwest network did not fair well through this merger. MEM cut DTW and MSP shrunk while the Delta network faired much better JFK, ATL and SLC all grew the only Delta casualty was CVG out of the merger. MSP and DTW will never see the days again when they were both 10 hub airports in th...

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by KGRB
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:47 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest
Replies: 231
Views: 22951

Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

KLM617, I'm not quite sure if your signature is meant to be ironic or if you are serious, because facts don't seem to matter to you. I can definitely agree that out of all of the major mergers over the last 10-15 years, DL/NW went very well. I didn't realize that MSP and DTW shrunk though, they seem...

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by KGRB
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Patriots already selling one of the team 767s?
Replies: 42
Views: 13243

Re: Patriots already selling one of the team 767s?

lavalampluva wrote:
Have two seemed a little much. One widebody should be plenty. Even for an NFL team.

And when their one plane goes on MX, then what? It's not like DL, AA, and UA can get them a widebody at a moment's notice.

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by KGRB
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:18 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: 3 flights, 4 states in one day
Replies: 28
Views: 2309

Re: 3 flights, 4 states in one day

My craziest excursion was last summer when I did GRB-MSP-DTW-STL-DTW-GRB in one day (Wisconsin (2x), Minnesota, Michigan (2x), and Missouri).
I've also done GRB-ATL-TPA-DTW-GRB and MKE-CLT-HHH-CLT-MKE in the same day.

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by KGRB
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Is there a union vote coming at Delta Ramp
Replies: 12
Views: 2736

Re: Is there a union vote coming at Delta Ramp

I remember just the opposite. Before and during the NW bankruptcy, they outsourced many non-hub stations. I had friends that had to relocate to save their jobs. After the merger, one friend was able to move back to the station that was outsourced by NW but staffed by mainline DL. It took getting ri...

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by KGRB
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Is there a union vote coming at Delta Ramp
Replies: 12
Views: 2736

Re: Is there a union vote coming at Delta Ramp

Damn good way to get your job outsourced Not sure that argument holds water. Northwest was heavily unionized and had far more stations staffed in-house than pre-merger Delta. The only reason Delta has so many outstations with mainline employees today is because of Northwest and all of the jobs thei...

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by KGRB
Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Why was Delta So late to the A321 game?
Replies: 46
Views: 9971

Re: Why was Delta So late to the A321 game?

Purely IMO, Prior to the bankruptcy, DL had declared they had agreed with Boeing that they, Boeing, would be their exclusive supplier of airframes. Deal done! NOT SO FAST! While emerging from bankruptcy, and when merging/acquiring NW, somethings happened. First of all, NW had a boatload of Airbus f...

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by KGRB
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA 878 IAH-MSP diverts to MSN, skids off runway
Replies: 47
Views: 9374

Re: UA 878 IAH-MSP diverts to MSN, skids off runway

Why not divert to MKE? My guess, and mind you this is a guess is MKE was most likely suffering the same issues as to why the cancelled the diversion to MSN, They didn't cancel the diversion to MSN. They diverted to MSN the first time and departed again for MSP. They missed the approach at MSP and t...

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by KGRB
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA 878 IAH-MSP diverts to MSN, skids off runway
Replies: 47
Views: 9374

Re: UA 878 IAH-MSP diverts to MSN, skids off runway

Mods, can we change the title of this thread? It makes it sound like they skidded off the runway at MSN. Why not divert to MKE? What would make diverting to MKE more advantageous than GRB? The two runways at GRB, at 8,699 and 7,699 feet respectively, are more than long enough to accommodate a 737-90...

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by KGRB
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta pax endure 12 hour delay
Replies: 34
Views: 7963

Re: Delta pax endure 12 hour delay

Who knew that the second largest airline in the world would have a long delay once and a while? Must be a slow news day at Fox...

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by KGRB
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:08 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Airbus A321 double jetway usage
Replies: 37
Views: 10055

Re: Airbus A321 double jetway usage

Something that I have never seen before. American actually paints A321 on the A321s to let ramp personnel know that the door goes to L1 there versus L2 on a B752 (to an untrained eye, they look alike). This is the first time I have seen L2 used for boarding an A321. Delta has similar markings on th...

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by KGRB
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:13 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your 2018 Booked/Flown Flights List
Replies: 331
Views: 45657

Re: Your 2018 Booked/Flown Flights List

I have a few more to add to the list. It's been a productive year so far! ⋅ 01/19/18 / DL5880 / MKE-BOS / EMB-175 / N904JQ (Operated by YX) ⋅ 01/19/18 / DL3289 / BOS-CVG / CRJ-900 / N927XJ (Operated by 9E) ⋅ 01/19/18 / DL4566 / CVG-MKE / CRJ-200 / N919EV (Operated by OO...

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by KGRB
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.
Replies: 84
Views: 9687

Re: Feasibility of airlines operating into 2 airports in same metro area.

I'm surprised no one has brought up GRB and ATW. Green Bay and Appleton are essentially the same metro area and the two airports are a mere 25 miles apart. Both airports have service by AA/DL/UA. Prior to the 2003 cuts to the EAS program, UA Express served OSH (in addition to the other two) which is...

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by KGRB
Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:54 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: American Airlines Announces an Aggressive New Way to Stop Passengers From Stealing Overhead Bin Space
Replies: 43
Views: 6354

Re: American Airlines Announces an Aggressive New Way to Stop Passengers From Stealing Overhead Bin Space

And what about all the FA bags that are tossed up into those bins? Those should go too. Bin space should be for paying passengers only ... not the staff. Shirley you can't be serious... FAs have manuals in their crew bags that they are required to carry with them. If the FA's bags get lost or left ...

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by KGRB
Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:54 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your 2018 Booked/Flown Flights List
Replies: 331
Views: 45657

Re: Your 2018 Booked/Flown Flights List

Flown: 01/19/18 DL5880 MKE-BOS EMB-175 N904JQ (Operated by Republic Airline as Delta Connection) 01/19/18 DL3289 BOS-CVG CRJ-900 N927XJ (Operated by Endeavor Air as Delta Connection) 01/19/18 DL4566 CVG-MKE CRJ-200 N919EV (Operated by SkyWest Airlines as Delta Connection)

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by KGRB
Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Connection - 2018 Status and Future Plans
Replies: 38
Views: 6797

Re: Delta Connection - 2018 Status and Future Plans

Because they're union, and Skywest is not. That's basically the entire reason that EV is out of the Delta game by the end of 2018, Skywest decided they didn't want a union carrier around any more. If that were true, SkyWest, Inc. would be shutting EV down entirely, which they're not. The EV United ...

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by KGRB
Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018
Replies: 107
Views: 12380

Wisconsin Aviation Thread - 2018

https://community.southwest.com/legacyfs/online/wordpress/images/uploads/files/bthomas/p1010463.jpg SkyWest is reactivating the former Midwest/Republic hangars at MKE: https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2018/01/11/skywest-brings-new-life-long-vacant-former-midwest-hangars-mitchell-intern...

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by KGRB
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will AS keep a VX heritage livery?
Replies: 50
Views: 6642

Re: Will AS keep a VX heritage livery?

How much "Heritage" does VX have? ..... None I would say. I would agree. Besides the royalty issue that above posters mentioned, VX really hasn't been around all that long. Other than airline nerds like us, I doubt very many people in the general public will care about or even remember th...

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by KGRB
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:08 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Have you landed at the alphabet?
Replies: 55
Views: 4656

Re: Have you landed at the alphabet?

Domestic USA: http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=RDU-MSP,+MSP-DTW,+DTW-STL,+ATW-ORD,+ATW-DTW,+ATW-ATL,+ATW-MSP,+CID-MSP,+CVG-DTW,+CVG-LAX,+CVG-STL,+CWA-DTW,+CWA-GRB,+DCA-MSP,+PHX-DEN-DTW,+DFW-MKE,+FAR-MSP,+FWA-DTW,+FWA-ATL,+GRB-MKE,+GRB-MSP,+GRB-DTW,+GRB-ATL,+GRB-ORD,+HHH-CLT,+JFK-PHX,+JFK-DTW,+LAX-ATL,+LAX...

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by KGRB
Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!
Replies: 88
Views: 19609

Re: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!

For a forum made up of airliner enthusiasts, people sure are quick to downplay the significance of this event. I'm not sure if its the hatred for DL, Airbus, or both. Over 80% of the US citizens will never fly on a wide body jet anyway. So to the few million who have enough money to even fly, and to...

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by KGRB
Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!
Replies: 88
Views: 19609

Re: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!

a lot of people care about the introduction of A350 service in the US. Introduction? QR flies from DFW/MIA/JFK/PHL to DOH CX flies from EWR and SFO to HKG SQ flies from SFO/IAH(via MAN) to SIN LH flies from BOS to MUC OZ flies from SFO to ICN JJ flies from JFK to GRU CI flies from HNL/SFO to TPE In...

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by KGRB
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!
Replies: 88
Views: 19609

Re: First Delta A350 Revnue Flight T-24 Hours and Counting!!

As for what is historic? Except for the DL BB's, no one cares. Its not like this is the launch customer of a new plane. The first revenue flight of an aircraft by a US carrier is a historic event, despite what the naysayers might contend. This is also ignoring the fact that this marks the introduct...

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by KGRB
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:53 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Most-missed US Major
Replies: 68
Views: 7571

Re: Most-missed US Major

There's no doubt that Northwest is my most-missed airline. Growing up in Wisconsin, NWA was the dominant airline at most the commercial airports in my state (sans MKE) and was the only airline to fly mainline equipment - mostly DC-9s and later A319/A320s - into my hometown of Green Bay . My first f...

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by KGRB
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:21 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 737 Girt Bar manual vs. automatic.
Replies: 15
Views: 6282

Re: 737 Girt Bar manual vs. automatic.

The door on the 737 is an antiquated design that isn't friendly to being modified in that way without SIGNIFICANT re-engineering. The doors are also not compliant with current codes for opening force requirements; but they're grandfathered in as an existing design. Besides that, arming the slide on...

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by KGRB
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:10 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Most-missed US Major
Replies: 68
Views: 7571

Re: Most-missed US Major

There's no doubt that Northwest is my most-missed airline. Growing up in Wisconsin, NWA was the dominant airline at most the commercial airports in my state (sans MKE) and was the only airline to fly mainline equipment - mostly DC-9s and later A319/A320s - into my hometown of Green Bay. My first fli...

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by KGRB
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:00 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Delta A350 wing delamination during tire burst at HSV
Replies: 65
Views: 25838

Re: Delta A350 wing delamination during tire burst at HSV

Also I think Delta would much rather screw us over here at msp than those at detriot.. Serious question here just for my enlightenment: what would Delta have to do to have such an impact? Thanks Moe could be due to proximity of Detroit. They're downsizing a bit :banghead: I really miss the days of ...

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by KGRB
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:29 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: How to find which routes specific airplanes fly?
Replies: 10
Views: 1877

Re: How to find which routes specific airplanes fly?

Hello, And I apologize if this has been asked before; please provide links to similar threads if you are aware of them (the threads, not the links :)) I would like to (try to) fly with certain types of airplanes at some point, just for the experience of it. Like, 787s, Q400, BAe146 (which may be ve...

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by KGRB
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: U.S. Dept of Commerce backs Boeing in dispute with Bombardier
Replies: 1424
Views: 119011

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Can't imagine Delta ordering a Boeing product in the near future after this. Like they were before? Their relationship has been negative for years. Boeing had little to lose. It amazes me that people still think that Delta and Boeing have a amicable relationship when every piece of evidence points ...

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by KGRB
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Ground Stop in PHX Today
Replies: 15
Views: 4458

Re: Ground Stop in PHX Today

Wondering how crew timeouts work. I know the limit is 8 hours.... so the crew on AA319 left Boston at 6.20am. Is departure when the 8 hours starts or is it when they enter the cockpit, or some other point? Generally speaking it's a 9hr flight time /13hr duty time restriction per FAR 117. Duty time ...

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by KGRB
Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:02 am
Forum: Aviation Hobby
Topic: Most iconic airline for the most important planes?
Replies: 25
Views: 6698

Re: Most iconic airline for the most important planes?

Here are the aircraft you asked about: A380: Emirates by a long shot 747: Lufthansa, Pan Am, KLM 737: Southwest, Ryanair A320: American, EasyJet DC-3: Tons of operators, but TWA was the driving force behind the design DC-6: Pan Am, Northwest Orient MD-10: FedEx and Orbis are the only operators, to m...

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by KGRB
Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:17 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SkyWest at-risk EAS Markets
Replies: 42
Views: 7973

Re: SkyWest at-risk EAS Markets

No limit in how much that the company can schedule crews (other than legal limits), causing OO crews to be pushed more and more and more as they have to absorb more flying with fewer pilots. Skywest does not have well above average work rules, they have no work rules. Without a CBA, they can't have...

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by KGRB
Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SkyWest at-risk EAS Markets
Replies: 42
Views: 7973

Re: SkyWest at-risk EAS Markets

Well that's surprising, must have changed within the last 3-5 months. Just another peg on OO's attempt to kill this industry. Just out of curiosity, why do you have such a negative opinion of SkyWest? I have worked in the airline industry for a number of years and I've always found SkyWest to be on...

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by KGRB
Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:40 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: On which airliner have most people taken their first flight?
Replies: 125
Views: 7399

Re: On which airliner have most people taken their first flight?


My first flight was on this lovely Northwest Airlines DC-10 from MKE to MSP in the fall of 1996. Nobody believes me that NW operated a widebody on an approximately 300-mile flight, but they did. I even have my first flight certificate, autographed by the crew, to prove it! :D

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by KGRB
Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:35 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: When did you fly on your first 737 and A320?
Replies: 67
Views: 3824

Re: When did you fly on your first 737 and A320?

My first A320 series flight was in about 2002 or 2003 on Northwest Airlines. I flew on an A320 from MSP to PHX on then on an A319 on the return. I remember being very impressed at the time with the A320's cabin. Since then, I've flown on the following A320 family models with the following airlines: ...

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