Search found 12910 matches

by lightsaber
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator
Replies: 127
Views: 29035

Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

n729pa wrote:
Maybe Iron Maiden can take it on tour!

I wonder if someone might snap it up as a vip or government run around? Mines bigger than yours....

Does it have enough life for a summer tour before the horridly expensive next overhaul?

When does HiFly take their first a380?

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by lightsaber
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAA bailed out by government again
Replies: 135
Views: 20421

Re: SAA bailed out by government again

mercure1 wrote:
Will this saga never end?
SAA will always have some sort of loan or debt to pay off, which seemingly the government must now cover.

If a company gets subsidies, it will be managed to need them.

Let SAA fail. That is the smart solution.

Lightsaber

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Future CSeries Orders (Post Airbus-Bombardier deal)
Replies: 126
Views: 12438

Re: Future CSeries Orders (Post Airbus-Bombardier deal)

EasyJet is the largest A319 operator in the world. They could use the CS300 to replace the A319 in the future. U2 had Bombardier bid, but I would have insisted on contract terms the C-series couldn't have met. Now they could. B6, LH, IAG, U2, UA, AA, NK, 6E, and QR. Maybe FlyDubai later... Lightsaber

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

- Airbus will put C-Series ahead of own A319neo in sales push - Future Airbus projects will incorperate C-Series technology - Enders said he’s confident the surprise deal will make both the CS300 and the smaller CS100 a “roaring success in the market.” Other interesting snippets: "Enders, spea...

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta to issue RFP for up to 150 Narrowbodies?
Replies: 191
Views: 30846

Re: Delta to issue RFP for up to 150 Narrowbodies?

What other large RFP is active? I'm not aware of another. Both Boeing and Airbus want this order. Both will bid This was posted in the thread about the Airbus C Series tie up, for what it is worth: Bastian came out today and said: (1) DL will wait to take delivery of the C-Series until a line is run...

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

Anyone else laughing at the official Boeing statements that are being tweeted? They are ridiculous... The replies are pretty funny. Lol Someone needs to do an auto-delete on the Twitter app. It's just too painful to witness these days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do not the US and EU have a treaty...

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:45 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Bombardier Q1000
Replies: 69
Views: 15915

Re: Bombardier Q1000

I just flew two legs in Westjet Q400's...and I was very impressed. I had plenty of legroom, (I'm 6'1"), and I had 3 inches of knee room to the seat in front of me and could easily stretch right out. Both legs were about an hour long...and both flights were packed. To me, stretching the Q400 in...

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by lightsaber
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Beijing unveils new airport, to open in 2019
Replies: 42
Views: 8106

Re: Beijing unveils new airport, to open in 2019

PEK will stay open for Star Alliance, but will other non-alliance airlines stay? I am talking about airlines like Emirates, Etihad Airways, El Al, Air Mauritius, etc. With all of SkyTeam gone from PEK, there will be quite a lot of free slots for other airlines to use. How is Terminal 3 coping with ...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

Lots of smart people have given their opinion but nonetheless here's mine. Loser: Embraer - Embraer must be super pissed that not only did the production costs of their biggest competitor get totally slashed overnight No. The plane is being built by the same people using the same processes with the...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

My predictions. You can grade me when the future is known. It would be interesting to see other people's predictions. 1) There will be a significant order for the C-series in the next 9 months. At least 40 planes, or 25 orders + 25 options. 2) There will be no CS500. Ever. 3) Bombardier will have t...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:02 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

The only way the tarriffs get removed is if Airbus re-imburses the Canadians all the money they spent bailing out the program. Which may actually happen now. It will be interesting to see. errr... No. The tariff is on a Canadian built aircraft. If you take a 55% US parts aircraft and assemble it in...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market
Replies: 28
Views: 7564

Re: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market

Richard Anderson said 3 years ago, when the Delta/Boeing relationship was going downhill fast, that there was a widebody glut coming and Boeing poo-pooed the idea. Who is laughing now? And just think, 75% of 777x sales are to ME3...I would classify that program as at risk now.. Let's not get ahead ...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will WN go with the bigger 737s?
Replies: 54
Views: 5275

Re: Will WN go with the bigger 737s?

Anything over 175 seats requires a new pilot contract. SWA currently has a "good deal" with the pilots, less than the US3 on comparable equipment. I suspect they really don't want to renegotiate given the current pilot-demand environment. Eventually WN will have to negotiate a new deal. I...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

I now see the CS500 being developed and the A319neo being effectively dead. This is a coup for Airbus...as they can market the CSeries. The A319NEO and -7 MAX were already effectively dead. ;) This just puts enough life into the CS300 to make it thrive. I'm alternating opinions on the CS500 (will i...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Embraer's E2 Program after recent CSeries news
Replies: 29
Views: 3311

Re: Embraer's E2 Program after recent CSeries news

How the E2 program is in danger? It is still on budget and on time. Having spend 1.7 billion dollar in a full to develop a full modernized aircraft. It shares the same nose and crosssection of the E1, but other than that it is a completely new aircraft. This development costs means that they can of...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

Monopoly Considerations: Will the American government or Boeing stop this deal? When it's done, Airbus will have 50% of ATR and 50.1% of Bombardier's biggest program. ATR and Bombardier are the regional turboprop industry. If the American government wanted to challenge the deal on anti-competitive ...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Embraer's E2 Program after recent CSeries news
Replies: 29
Views: 3311

Re: Embraer's E2 Program after recent CSeries news

So what do people think of this program with this recent news? Personally I thought the program was done before the news and now I think this was the final nail in the coffin. I just don't see where this program can go right now. They are competing against the same product as yesterday. The E2 seri...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market
Replies: 28
Views: 7564

Re: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market

The line rate has been increased because they believe they can sell all the airframes they are producing as they are produced - they aren't looking to generate negative cash-flow to produce more quickly to build inventory at a lower per unit cost. The 787 delivery rate is currently LOWER than their...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market
Replies: 28
Views: 7564

Re: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market

New deliveries have a different issue, their inability to SLB. Last year EK lease costs went up by 30%. Reasons could be as mundane as newer 77W are bigger than 330/340/772/773s to higher lease cost. The heavily discounted volume price which looked so great few years back, is higher than current FM...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:08 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hawaiian Airlines having second thoughts on A330neos, could order 787's instead
Replies: 259
Views: 37425

Re: Hawaiian Airlines having second thoughts on A330neos, could order 787's instead

Cool that lessor self finances. Still doesn’t help the airline looking to buy the frame instead of leasing. What the user is willing to pay determines the value of the plane. I don’t know why you don’t understand that. Lessors just can’t name their price and get the aircraft placed. Someone has to ...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership
Replies: 1079
Views: 65272

Re: Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership

For limits on Mobile, people do realize how much room that plant has to grow? For the record, I didn't see this coming. Not at all. No one in my rumor mill tipped me off. Grrr... Karma. As Sun Tzu said, "Never back an enemy into a corner". Now Boeing's nightmare is just beginning. Airbus b...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A6-EBD, first EK 77W retirement
Replies: 37
Views: 11835

Re: A6-EBD, first EK 77W retirement

Plan from December 2015 was to retire one 777-300ER in 2016 that was retired in 2017. The plan was also to retire 24 more aircraft in 2017 (or retire planned 2016 aircraft in 2017, all I know is 50 airframes were scheduled to go, including the A340s). Per wikipedia, the one retirement is all. Is tha...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:39 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market
Replies: 28
Views: 7564

Re: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market

I still think the bellweather here is going to be Emirates. Their massive 773ER fleet is reaching the stage where leases are going to time out, and EK was looking to upgrade or switch to the 777X. EK will be a bellweather for both the A380 and 77W. Now, they have already differed A380 orders (effec...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy
Replies: 442
Views: 101601

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

The cash flow atm is actually ok given that they have protection from creditors and they've been selling dirt cheap advance tickets. LHR to DEL sells for 900£ in J. FCO to DEL is a little over 400 eur both return. Right now the MD is the former Head of EK in Italy so he's pushing for new destinatio...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A330neo MTOW increase
Replies: 178
Views: 28416

Re: A330neo MTOW increase

Unless there is a substantial MTOW increase, the HUGE wingbox tank of the A330-200/300/800/900 cannot be filled. So why are we talking ACTs? (Airbus cargo hold tanks... yea, they have a different name, but that is what they are in normal industry jargon). But with the A332/A338 based tankers, there...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:29 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 777-300ER glut impact on widebody market
Replies: 28
Views: 7564

777-300ER glut impact on widebody market

"For airlines without recent additions of 777-300ERs, the aircraft still looms since it appears resale opportunities will be so low that airlines are probably better off retaining the aircraft. Leased aircraft will likely be able to have their leases renewed at very favourable rates, since less...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing officially forms program office to flesh out 797 plans
Replies: 391
Views: 48185

Re: Boeing officially forms program office to flesh out 797 plans

It also reminds me of 2003 when Airbus was focused 4 engines 4 long haul with the A340 and A380 and took years to conclude they needed an all new twin engine airplane rather than refreshing their existing planes to respond to the 787. Wasn't that the Virgin Atlantic slogan? You seem to either want ...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: A330neo MTOW increase
Replies: 178
Views: 28416

Re: A330neo MTOW increase

The MRTT doesn't really gain from MTOW increases beyond ~235t. ( OEW + 110t fuel + some ancillaries. ) apropos: would the 155kl/121t tankage of the A340-200 be available on the A330-200? then that limit would increase to 245t The A340-213X's extra fuel came from three ACTs in the hold. I am guessin...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta MD88/90 Retirements
Replies: 21
Views: 6695

Re: Delta MD88/90 Retirements

Is the MD90 retirement also slated for 2020 now? Will they be retired in tandem with the MD88s as overhauls are due, potentially fully parked before the MD88? There are issues with short term V2500D5 parts. The vendors have no incentive to make parts on speculation. So when engines became short, DL...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:55 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 737-700 vs 737 MAX 7 Short Field and Hot/High Performance
Replies: 27
Views: 3455

Re: 737-700 vs 737 MAX 7 Short Field and Hot/High Performance

For the MAX 7, Boeing should look into leading edge treatment as Airbus is doing for the A320NEO shortfield kit. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-developing-short-field-enhancement-for-a320ne-416903/ Isn't SHARP primarily about optimizing the wing to body fairing? Yes. I mis-typed,...

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by lightsaber
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:17 am
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: FlightGlobal: New tests move P&W closer to ultra-high bypass GTF
Replies: 7
Views: 1765

Re: FlightGlobal: New tests move P&W closer to ultra-high bypass GTF

don't they need to get the current GTFs working "properly" before they spend too much time on future iterations?? :D Different team. Seriously. But you cannot stop developing technology. Technology I worked on in 1999 entered service in 2016. How much longer a gap do you want? There is a ...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing delivers the 100th 767-300 Freighter
Replies: 10
Views: 1915

Re: Boeing delivers the 100th 767-300 Freighter

According to Atlas the used 767 market is going dry and they are looking into the A330P2F market. We’ll see what happens going forward. The issue with the A330 freighter - new or converted - is the physical footprint is larger than their MD-10 / A300 / A310 (mainly the wingspan). So an A330 freight...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: FedEx Equipment Update
Replies: 42
Views: 5824

Re: FedEx Equipment Update

Your answer is one click away: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot.... Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra? The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now... The Airbus fleet is not getting the boot, they...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing officially forms program office to flesh out 797 plans
Replies: 391
Views: 48185

Re: Boeing officially forms program office to flesh out 797 plans

Parapente, The GTF is a game changer. Pratt's processes are out of date and they don't know it. :(. The Pratt MoM proposal would use a 3.5:1 gearbox that allows a more efficient and higher pressure ratio low compressor. It also allows a more efficient low turbine. The PW1500G was optimized for a 1.5...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:35 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: A340-300 vs B777-200ER, A Retrospective Analysis
Replies: 44
Views: 3917

Re: A340-300 vs B777-200ER, A Retrospective Analysis

Ummm... Per sources I found, the 777-200ER burns a tiny bit less fuel than the A343-300E: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fleehamnews-5389.kxcdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2FA350-vs-777-200ER-and-340-table-779x1024.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fleehamnews.com%2F2015%2...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:55 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: 737-700 vs 737 MAX 7 Short Field and Hot/High Performance
Replies: 27
Views: 3455

Re: 737-700 vs 737 MAX 7 Short Field and Hot/High Performance

I missed this info......what's the thrust rating between the models? The MAX 10 will have 31K LEAP-1B engines, from the Boeing website I’m seeing the MAX 7 as being fitted with LEAP-1B in tthe 26-29K thrust range. I think you'd run into moment arm issues due to the shorter tube. Same reason the 319...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:35 pm
Forum: Technical/Operations
Topic: Safran inaugurates open rotor test program
Replies: 17
Views: 1037

Re: Safran inaugurates open rotor test program

Open rotors are fascinating. Just remember the slower cruise speed than a GTF. They're benefit is they give you a higher bypass ration without the weight of a nacelle. But without a nacelle, blade tip mach number is limited which means cruise speed is limited more than with a nacelle. Business jets ...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350
Replies: 85
Views: 12526

Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Well RIP A330neo if that happens. My first thought was 'what is the background on this?' Do we really take this seriously. What you posted was my second thought. Without AirAsia, the A330NEO program becomes the widebody 717. Both are great planes, but there comes a point were a re-engine just isn't...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:17 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy
Replies: 442
Views: 101601

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

So they willl be one whole year under administration? And how much government money will they have burned? By now it should be clear that nobody is interested in AZ at least not a the current asking price. And who should be? LH group just had a major aquisiton with AB, FR has internal problems, eas...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy
Replies: 442
Views: 101601

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Alitalia will never die... Would be governmental suicide in Italy. Yeah, the situation is similar like to Air India The situation is costly for both when the reality is there will be no loss of service if the poorly run entity is allowed to fail. Money is spent for corrupt reasons. I'd love to know...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes
Replies: 104
Views: 16239

Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Leahy is not even part of the story, the investigation is about middlemen who seem to be involved in suspicious transactions Leahy was the head of the sales department. If those things happened (who doubts it really...), then Leahy knew _EVERYTHING_ - period. Having said that, there is simply no wa...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy
Replies: 442
Views: 101601

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Looks like we're back to square one with this new bridge loan. The government will likely acknowledge no company wanted to take AZ as a whole and launch a new sale offer to delay any decision until after the elections in spring. I feel like a cynic, but that "loan" shows that AZ won't be ...

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by lightsaber
Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit
Replies: 95
Views: 13058

Re: UA to add seats to 777-200s with Polaris retrofit

Wow, one poster took over the thread. Its simple economics. If people won't pay a lot for a fare, they must cut the costs. The airline business is brutal. If you don't like 3-4-3, don't buy it. If you like 3-3-3, pay a premium for it. Or fly Y+. My employer won't pay (and I won't pay for work). Ligh...

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by lightsaber
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: airBaltic grounds CSeries fleet
Replies: 37
Views: 12777

Re: airBaltic grounds CSeries fleet

From Fliegerfaust: ...possibly a fuel filter issue: http://www.fliegerfaust.com/airbaltic-grounded-all-of-its-cseries-and-checking-on-their-jetfuel-supplier-2495757576.html Filter or fuel supplier? I've seen both. One mechanic was particularly gifted at incorrectly installing oil filters and almost...

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by lightsaber
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: When will Virgin Australia expand its network?
Replies: 26
Views: 3194

Re: When will Virgin Australia expand its network?

Heck, if anything you should be asking "can VA sustain its network?" Because that's not exactly a guarantee. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually hand over the US routes to DL, and focus on Oceania and SE Asia, should their financial position repeat the last few recent results. :( Y...

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by lightsaber
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Now more A380s than passenger 747s
Replies: 50
Views: 9516

Re: Now more A380s the passenger 747s

One late edit: Every one does realize there are now more 747 freighters in operation than 747 passenger aircraft, right? This is there are more passenger A380s than passenger 747s. There are far more 747s than A380s. Because there are more freighter 747s than A380s. ;) Just saying... It's not so muc...

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by lightsaber
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy
Replies: 442
Views: 101601

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

I think that IAG would be an awesome option to proceed with a "good airline" AZ. IAG did a good job with IB. There was already a try at reforming Alitalia with a "good airline" plan with CAI. Then there was a second reform with Etihad. My question is, what do you think would be ...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.
Replies: 96
Views: 14225

Re: DOT seeks terminate 19 communities from EAS program.

Note: US claims sovereignty over our rural areas (and those citizens like it), hence a certain obligation to provide services. Are those disagreeing that they can withdraw from the US and turn to China or North Korea? Get smart! There is no obligation to avoid a 40 minute drive to better air servic...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:11 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What is LX's Strategy With The Remaining A340-300's?
Replies: 14
Views: 3881

Re: What is LX's Strategy With The Remaining A340-300's?

Keep u hising them on the longer haul routes in the network. These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them. The issue is the added weight adds costs. LX is maintaining four engines instead of 2. But the big Bill due at the end of the first heavy maintenanc...

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by lightsaber
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hawaiian Airlines having second thoughts on A330neos, could order 787's instead
Replies: 259
Views: 37425

Re: Hawaiian Airlines having second thoughts on A330neos, could order 787's instead

Found it https://leehamnews.com/2014/07/15/airbus-a330-800-and-900neo-first-analysis-part-2-engines-and-maintenance-costs/ “It means that an airline ordering an A330ceo or A330neo will be offered similar prices for our Total Care maintenance including Life-Limited Parts.” This is significant as eng...

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