Search found 2838 matches

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 767 Fleet/Subfleet Activity (2018)
Replies: 291
Views: 47189

Re: 767 Fleet/Subfleet Activity (2018)

An ex-Hawaiian Airlines B763ER has ferried to TLV to be converted into a freighter. I wonder if UA considered this one before selecting N588/590/592HA which are all -3CB (ERs) vs N580HA which is a -33A (ER): Boeing 767-33A 28140 850 N580HA WFBN ferried 16-17 December 2018 GYR-BGR-TLV, for freighter...

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:47 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional
Replies: 131
Views: 3287

Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

In many states, people are required to buy car insurance. So, clearly this is OK from a constitutional point of view (otherwise it would have been stricken down by SCOTUS, right?). People are not required to own and operate a motor vehicle. Not the same thing. It's why one has stood and the other h...

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ
Replies: 67
Views: 9983

Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

lavalampluva wrote:
*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]

They’ll be using an A319. I believe that’s what NW used the last time.


It was an A319, but it was DL by then. Hopefully it does a lot better this time.

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:57 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional
Replies: 131
Views: 3287

Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

It’s unconstitutional because you can’t force people to buy a product. Yes, you can. There are many products and things that people require for life. And if it is needed governments and the public have been "forcing" people to buy things for as long as there have been communities. Buildin...

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 387
Views: 41639

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

What numbers are you using? I’m comparing total annual enplanements; CLT’s up 32% since 2008 — likely the highest of any trunk hub. In comparison, ATL is up 16%, MSP 12% and DTW is -1%. FAA. Unfortunately I see now that the Wikipedia table appears to be wrong in the 2009 CLT data I was referencing....

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:57 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional
Replies: 131
Views: 3287

Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

DL717 - for a variety of reason there is close to a total market failure in medical care. There is not an example in the entire world where medical care policy works and is deregulated. Only in your imagination does any industry work as you seem to think. Read Adam Smith - both of his books. Deregu...

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:09 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 387
Views: 41639

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

CLT pulls well beyond its weight; traffic has doubled since 9-11, and most of it is the connecting variety. Traffic stagnated in 2014-2016, but was up 5% last year, so no, it hasnt been slow for a decade. Is this Alternatereality.net? CLT has only grown about 14% since its pre-recession peak in 200...

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:09 am
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: California Supreme Court Justice leaves GOP over Kavanaugh Hearings.
Replies: 28
Views: 1096

Re: California Supreme Court Justice leaves GOP over Kavanaugh Hearings.

Downright chilling that we have so many justices who do not believe in the Constitution and rule of law they swear to uphold. Folks, our country is going down the drain into lawlessness.

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 387
Views: 41639

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

Good point, but hubs like CLT have capacity beyond its natural demand and is that hurting AA's margins? Seriously, I'm curious to know. Not to step on a landmine, but what I was thinking is the following. A. DL could cut the remaining non-hub flying from CVG and shift that capacity to DTW. I've lon...

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by MSPNWA
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?
Replies: 104
Views: 12147

Re: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?

If a city cannot provide enough passengers to allow an airline to turn a profit, its market does not deserve any service. Passenger-friendly does not apply to small airports with 5-15 passengers per flight. Look how many train and bus stops have been dropped over the decades. I know people who live...

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by MSPNWA
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?
Replies: 104
Views: 12147

Re: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?

yes because we don't live in Soviet Russia. If a market can't support a flight it can't support a flight. Its not the job of the airlines to fly to BF USA just because of your feels. If the market ponies up the cash they will have flights. Hell if the market was there, EMB and BBD would be coming u...

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by MSPNWA
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?
Replies: 104
Views: 12147

Re: Will DL get rid of 50 seat RJ's entirely?

From my standpoint they could use more 50-seaters. There's so many markets out of DTW and MSP that have either lost service or have very limited frequency since the Saab 340/50-seater drawdown. A further reduction of 50-seaters to levels DL describes would further eliminate more routes and frequenci...

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by MSPNWA
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 387
Views: 41639

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

Or maybe they are accounting for a slowing of rate increases by the feds and the continued softening of equities? Nah, DL is clearly doing some nefarious stuff and not revising forecasts based on actual market data. That's not it. A high rate of return is set to make financial earnings appear the b...

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by MSPNWA
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018
Replies: 387
Views: 41639

Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

I see they still are spreading the falsehood that ATL is within 2 hours of 80% of the US population. Maybe with Concorde you can argue that. Mach .78? Not even close to 80%. NYC "Profit Margin +18 pts" Once again they don't give an actual profit margin guidance for NYC. Likely the reason i...

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut
Replies: 141
Views: 21058

Re: Delta’s new A220 narrowbody coming on sale for January debut

For example, the 739 has all of (IIRC) 4 seats in Y that are 30 in pitch, the rest are higher. On the 321 I believe it will be down to 2 seats once the configs are standard (If they aren't already, too lazy to look) etc. etc. Which four seats? Were you down there with a tape measure? DL is the tigh...

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA announces SFO-DEL/MEL/YYZ; Expands AKL/AMS/PPT/ICN.
Replies: 507
Views: 66828

Re: United Airlines CEO to Make Historic Route Announcement Tomorrow (12/12)

Impressive adds, but a little less than hyped IMO. Insane how much SFO is growing for UA.

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA announces SFO-DEL/MEL/YYZ; Expands AKL/AMS/PPT/ICN.
Replies: 507
Views: 66828

Re: United Airlines CEO to Make Historic Route Announcement Tomorrow (12/12)

My final guess is SFO-DEL for around-the-world.

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang
Replies: 2231
Views: 424126

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang

touché Is an autoland uncommanded ? automatic capture of an ILS ? Reducing thrust to idle during landing ? Who in industry calls autopilot/autothrust control inputs as being “uncommanded” ? Are you seriously trying to equate planned, expected, and essential automatic control inputs with unplanned, ...

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:43 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

Facts to back up your last paragraph please. Read DL's financial disclosures and public statements. Use economic theory to understand their situation. If DL is smart as you say, BOS is the result. Bottom line this decision on adding Boston flights was made by a well manage airline and by people pro...

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:30 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: UA announces SFO-DEL/MEL/YYZ; Expands AKL/AMS/PPT/ICN.
Replies: 507
Views: 66828

Re: United Airlines CEO to Make Historic Route Announcement Tomorrow (12/12)

My guess is EWR/IAD-JNB. To me this feels like a route to Africa.

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

In YE 2Q2018, JetBlue generated $4.2M per day in revenue at BOS on 25.8K paxs (both directions). Average fare was $163, on 140 average daily departures (annualized for the YE 2Q2018) In YE 2Q2018, Delta generated $3.4M per day in revenue at BOS on 15.9K paxs (both directions). Average fare was $219...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

Wrong. BOS will never ever be a 1 airline airport so it is not and will never be a zero-sum game. DFW, ATL, ORD, those are zero-sum game markets because there is only 1 dominant airline that is in bed with the local politicians and business leaders to make sure the status quo is maintained. Masspor...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang
Replies: 2231
Views: 424126

Re: Lion Air 737MAX8 Crashed Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang

Your comments are contradictory, and inaccurate. Mach, STS, and MCAS are autotrim or as you suggest uncommanded. These are not uncommanded they are commanded by the FCC even with the autopilot turned off during manual flight. Now you're twisting the industry definition of "uncommanded" to...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:49 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"
Replies: 61
Views: 2050

Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Not that nonsense again... You can say that again.... I'd recommend not lecturing someone on what their country is. The U.S.A. is not a democracy. End of story. Saying so is like saying the earth doesn't exist. Go ahead. You can believe that if you wish. But I'll stick with believing a known truth.

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

The airlines' margins are totally unprecedented historically right now - even with experiments such as BOS and SEA. Things are summing up to so much more than zero. Sure, introductory new months are most likely loss making, but all the players - AS, B6, DL, and the others - can absolutely afford it...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:52 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

Not sure what that means, but ok. I remember being much happier with my seat in a Delta CRJ900 than in the 190s Ive been in on several airlines. I also remember being much happier with my seat in a 170 (LOT Polish, Delta) than in a 787 (LOT Polish, American, etc.). It is what it is. What it means i...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

Everyone is talking about this as if it is a zero sum game - which it is not. I think that DL and B6 understand the economic geography of the U.S., and understand that highly educated coastal metropolitan areas are the center of a tech and finance based economy that is creating a huge demand for tr...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

And? If you want to be that one person, fine with me. I'll steer clear of being the loner on the island. I mean I guess if we just assume B6 is sitting on a unlimited load of cash *looks at balance sheet* huh, they aren't. oh and we just assume LHR slots are plentiful. huh, they aren't. Still falls...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

Yeah, slots, competition, aircraft, getting ETOPS, etc. etc. are easy. :roll: :roll: That would all fall under "management indecision". Nothing is stopping B6 from launching service except for internal decisions. I've flown plenty of 190s. I've flown plenty of Delta CRJ900s. Give me the 9...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:35 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

The same things that made them successful in adding 120+ flights each to LAX and SEA? Operational costs and reliability vs. AA and UA. Service offerings (F, Comfort+, AVOD, seat assignments) vs. LCC and ULCC. ATL, DTW, and MSP are what make LAX and SEA "successful" and allows for money-lo...

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:52 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"
Replies: 61
Views: 2050

Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

I like "Freedom must be taught to every generation" better. And once again, we're not a democracy. This is how you change countries and lose freedom--one generation at a time.

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:49 pm
Forum: Non-Aviation
Topic: The Smocking Gun
Replies: 65
Views: 1982

Re: The Smocking Gun

I've always wondered if the Tweet spellings are just a way to troll those that hate him. If so, it's worked to perfection.

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD
Replies: 212
Views: 17478

Re: Delta Expansion at BOS with new routes including CLE, DCA, EWR, and ORD

These bloodbaths really hurt the smaller airline. DL can afford to lose money for a long-term play. B6 can't.

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by MSPNWA
Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest 737 overran runway at BUR
Replies: 231
Views: 35682

Re: Southwest 737 slides off runway at BUR

Chemist wrote:
Looks like EMAS saved the day, would have been like the incident a decade or so ago, same runway and location.

Definitely. Chalk one up for EMAS. Could have been bad otherwise.

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by MSPNWA
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Fleet Updates - 2018
Replies: 726
Views: 118229

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

PHX-Hawaii is going to the 321NEO. The CEO can't make it. My guess is that they need a bit more flexibility out of LAX to have a few extra planes available for different routings that they want to add. With such a small subfleet, they are limited on finding open aircraft time. Converting some over ...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL
Replies: 85
Views: 10809

Re: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL

I don't think you are reading what I am writing. YES, they did fly the maximum amount they could. There were no slots on 50 seat and less aircraft for a window of time and in order to grab what would become reinstituted slots they flew as my flights as they could jam into their LGA gates. It's an I...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL
Replies: 85
Views: 10809

Re: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL

There's a difference between maximum capacity and maximum gate usage. What US was doing was clearly squatting by using slots at maximum levels with minimum capacity. That's not what WN is doing at DAL. WN is offering superior capacity with usage-maximizing gate operations. You are confusing the two...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL
Replies: 85
Views: 10809

Re: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL

But they have to run at max capacity to block those gates. If you look at route performance in DB1B/T100, a lot of those new routes aren't good. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but again PHL-LGA got up to a maximum of 21 rts at one point. People on here argued with me that "there must be de...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA Fleet Updates - 2018
Replies: 726
Views: 118229

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

AA321T wrote:
Looks like N134AN and N135NN are both currently in DFW to get ETOPS mods to be converted from A321S to A321H. Interesting that they are growing this fleet.


Future replacement of 757s for Hawaii?

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled
Replies: 116
Views: 13352

Re: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled

You are missing my point. YES, the woman should not have been flying alone. Yet she was. Once she has her ticket in hand, like it or not, it's American's responsibility. No, it's not the airline's responsibility to hold your hand the entire trip. In fact most wheelchair passengers are completely ou...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:02 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: NEO vs CEO & MAX vs NG impressions
Replies: 6
Views: 625

Re: NEO vs CEO & MAX vs NG impressions

Flown in the MAX. Noticeable difference in cabin noise over the NG. The MAX is a very nice ride. Also I much prefer the Sky Interior. Not going to book either way though since the two are virtually equals.

Yet to fly the NEO, but I have one booked in February.

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United Airlines Network Thread 2018
Replies: 537
Views: 76741

Re: United Airlines Network Thread 2018

It’s not so much the 77W’s, I’m more surprised we don’t see any UA 787’s at ORD at all. Granted, I suspect we’ll see some in due time. If UA were to launch ORD-TLV (which I have to imagine is on the horizon, given UA’s recent expansion at TLV and Chicago now being the largest unserved market in the...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled
Replies: 116
Views: 13352

Re: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled

And there seems to be a lot more to be learned. Starting from the simple fact that I cannot find any canceled flight which fits the description of the situation. I found another article that said it was Friday's 10pm flight, so I'm pretty sure the flight in question is #3155 operated by SkyWest. Fl...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:21 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reuters: Lion Air ponders cancellation of 737 MAX orders
Replies: 156
Views: 28720

Re: Reuters: Lion Air ponders cancellation of 737 MAX orders

Maybe this is an excuse to get out of the contract due to too many planes being ordered. Or, reducing capacity as they experience a drop in bookings due to safety concerns? Making long-term capital decisions on month-long demand profiles is a foolish decision at best. So it's possible, but it would...

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by MSPNWA
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hawaiian Air A332 phx-hnl (return)
Replies: 3
Views: 1468

Re: Hawaiian Air A332 phx-hnl (return)

767 retirement is imminent, so I imagine the maintenance angle doesn't matter anymore. Only four are left. The last flight I can find is HNL-SMF-HNL on Jan 6th/7th.

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL
Replies: 85
Views: 10809

Re: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL

How is it strange? It is a common airline tactic. B6 was flying a bunch of junk from LGB just to keep WN from getting slots there. This is a tried and true tactic. DCA/LGA have routinely seen airlines flying junk routes just to avoid putting capacity into markets where people actually want to go wh...

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL
Replies: 85
Views: 10809

Re: WN-DL lawsuit takes turn, other airlines could enter DAL

End this fiasco and give the gates to the only airline that wants them to use them at full capacity that will maximize public benefit--WN. Pretty sure WN doesn't want more gates. This is more akin to when they eliminated slots at LGA and US/AA/others added tons of ridiculous flights (like PHL-LGA 14...

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by MSPNWA
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Reuters: Lion Air ponders cancellation of 737 MAX orders
Replies: 156
Views: 28720

Re: Reuters: Lion Air ponders cancellation of 737 MAX orders

This smells like it's trying to publicly convey "it was the airplane's fault", or it's simply an excuse for over-ordering.

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled
Replies: 116
Views: 13352

Re: American Airlines passenger left in wheelchair overnight at airport after flight was canceled

Lots of blame to go around assuming the new articles are true. AA is #3, yet it will get #1 from the public. The family made poor decisions that were asking for trouble like a screw-up by the vendor.

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by MSPNWA
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Rising costs of new KCI terminal worries airlines in Kansas City
Replies: 38
Views: 5099

Re: Rising costs of new KCI terminal worries airlines in Kansas City

Sounds like airlines being airlines. They sound alarms, but in reality they're for it. They're trying to get what they want too. Considering MCI is not a connecting powerhouse, there's little downside to the O&D community if higher costs are coming. It may limit upside, but there's nowhere to go...

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