Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1508 times:
Hello,
What would cause such a horrific landing as in the picture below? It appears the pilot doesn't have control of the jumbo. Is it because the pilot came in too fast, or could there have been a malfuntion with the planes breaks?
B767-400er From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
Nothing "worng" actually, just another normal crosswind landing at Kai-Tak, maybe with a "better than most" pilot.
Maybe he aimed too far to the right during the IGS 47 degree turn (possibily to compensate crosswind from the west? Or maybe from the east over the mountain as he's crubing left) and didn't kick(or not enough) the rudder to straighten out before touching down. But you must admit, Kai Tak is a damn fine airport to see jumbos "fly". I'll miss that place for a long time...
JETPILOT From United States, joined May 1999, 2997 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1168 times:
Thatis a pretty ugly landing.....from the tire tracks it looked like it started out just fine. What happened next is anyones guess.
He/she's pretty close to striking #4 engine.
I wouldnt be suprised if this guy went back to the sim after that episode.
You just don't get on the mike and make the normal announcment "thank you for flying X airline". You're gonna have a lot of passengers who shit their pants.
CYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1099 times:
It's turning the nose of the aircraft into the wind on landing, or what you are seeing above. The trick is to be keep the center of the wheelbase aligned with the centerline as you are flying the final.
If you were too keep the nose aligned with the centerline while landing in a crosswind you'd get blown off to the side of the runway.
For example, say your landing on Rwy 13(130 degree heading) in Kai Tak(above) and you you have a strong crosswing coming in at 95 degrees. You would have to fly the approach on something like 115 degrees to compansate for the crosswind and keep the wheels on the centerline.
The stronger the corswind, the more crab angle there will be. I may be wrong since I gathered all this from flying flight-sims.
Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1080 times:
It seems like a lot of bad landings took place at this airport, Kai Tak. The plane below also had a bad landing. Was this airport closed because of dangerous landings to aircraft?
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States, joined Aug 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 24 Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1062 times:
Crabbing is the aircraft "weathervaning" into the wind. It is more or less a vector type thing. The stronger the crosswind, and the slower the airplane's speed through the air, the more of an angle the airplane is going to have into the wind to keep a ground track aligned with the runway.
Panther From United States, joined Jun 2000, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 990 times:
Crabbing is easy, the trick is to finally kick the crab out and straighten out the nose while putting just enough wing down into the wind to stay on centerline.
I usually kick out of the crab around 80-100', however I fly with a lot of captains who can do it in the flare. It all comes with experience.
Fritzi From Sweden, joined Jun 2001, 2754 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 939 times:
There is nothing wrong with this landing at all. Especially not at Kai Tak. This is how aircrafts land in crosswinds! The Kai Tak APR and landing is something I really miss.
Regars,
Fritzi
A almsot full beer glass is better than a almost empty one
JG From United States, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 925 times:
Oh my fellow forum friend,
I hope you are being humorous with your reply because there is everything wrong with this landing... this aircraft came within milli- or even nano-seconds from major aircraft damage. Very poor execution of cross wind landing techniques. The flightcrew involved, I am certain, know this.
Entertaining to view all of that airport's close calls. But, I would be cleaning (most likely changing) my shorts if I should ever be this unfortunate.
Meister808 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 954 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 885 times:
Yeah.. just b/c this is a difficult airport to land at does not mean that this is normal.. the pilot should hvae had plenty of time to fix his crab.. a gust probably caught the pilot by surprise.
-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12725 posts, RR: 75 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 886 times:
If anyone thought that NCA photo (the second one in this thread) was something, you ought to look at the next one taken, after the engine struck the ground and caught fire...
Cx flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5430 posts, RR: 54 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 867 times:
Better to go around with one engine damaged and three working then running out of runway and putting it in the harbour, or veer off the runway into the traffic coming on the parallel taxiway. BTW, the seperation between the runway at KaiTak and the parallel taxiway was less than the ICAO recommended spacing...apparantely.
Whats's wrong with the inital picture of the crosswind landing? It's China Airlines, that's whats wrong.
Tbar220 From United States, joined Feb 2000, 6892 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 840 times:
Why didn't aircraft just land in the opposite direction? I know this might sound a little naive, but couldn't ATC figure out a way to have aircraft takeoff and land off the same end of the runway?
AJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2285 posts, RR: 24 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 833 times:
Panther,
Lowering of the wing in a B747 is a dangerous pursuit due to the risk of pod scrape. Our company policy is to straighten the aircraft just prior to touchdown and allow the sheer momentum to keep the aircraft on the centreline.
The only exception to this is during an autoland, when the autopilot may drop a wing, however autolands have strict crosswind limitations.
If the aircraft is not entirely straight on touchdown the undercarriage will naturally straighten the roll.
B767-400er From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 756 times:
I think your obvious reason for closing Kai Tak is wrong. It's not because if it's IGS 13 approach, or it's safety (in fact, I can only recall 2 major incidents, Lufthansa 747 cargo, Air China 744, both didn't result in deaths, also, the Luf 747 was fished out, and is still with Luf cargo). The major reason for Chep Lap Kok was that Kai Tak is located in the middle of the Kolnoon, pointing out into a bay, and has no expasion capabilities. My Father worked at Kai Tak before we moved to Canada, and I've been in the airport only a couple times, but memories are still so vivid...
Climbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 752 times:
Thank you, B767-400er, for clearing that up. I figured the aiport was closed for saftey reasons, but that's not the case. But those turns and landings were indeed intense and must have been an utter thrill for the passengers.
Oripippo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 730 times:
Probably the pilot stroke the engine on the Rwy because of the heavy cross wind blowing from the left of the 744, you can clearly see the nose of the aircraft not allined w/ the Rwy, the pilot just didn't kick enought on the right rudder end he also didn't used the cloche correctly, in fact because of the heavy xwind he was supposed to give a lot of left aleiron in order to keep the aircraft wings parallel to the Rwy he apparently didn't do it and the wind brought up the left wing making one of the right engine strike.
Cx flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5430 posts, RR: 54 Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 717 times:
767-400er,
I think you mean the China Airlines 744, and not the Air China 744. Completely different airlines. Air China has actually a fairly good safety record compared to China Airlines.....than again, what airline doesn't!!
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