BAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 940 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1001 times:
I was reading one of the NTSB's AARs the other day*, and noted that a particular airframe had a number of cycles versus flight hours that would have given the aircraft an average flight duration of an hour or so. The bird was an MD-83.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it was something like 17500 flight hours and 15000 cycles. That was for the fuselage, not the engines, (which in turn had some apparently really brief flights on them).
Does that seem reasonable for the type? If I looked up a 747, would I find that it might have 1000 cycles and 8000 flight hours for an average flight length of 8 hours?
Many thanks for any clarification on this.
* I'm not a ghoul, but you do learn so much from them about systems and practices.
"Sure, Captain - I like films about gladiators. Why do you ask?"
If you give me some minutes I'll check for some aircrafts on LH, some older 737s, some A300s and maybe some 744s or 343s...
Will be back soon with some info
WILCO737 (MD11F)
If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.
BAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 940 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 985 times:
Indeed it does sir, and I am in your debt - I am always surprised at how people will go out of their way here to provide data. For what it's worth to you, welcome to my RU list.
So it looks like those MD-83s really do spend most of their time in short little shuttle flights, since the corresponding data for various-sized aircraft match the original observation, and the expectation of their mission. Huh. Maybe this could be used to prove that Americans aren't so cavalier with their oil. After all, imagine all of those 300-or-so mile journeys done in Buicks.
[Edited 2008-07-01 10:37:46]
"Sure, Captain - I like films about gladiators. Why do you ask?"
WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 4215 posts, RR: 68 Reply 4, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 980 times:
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Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 3): Indeed it does sir, and I am in your debt - I am always surprised at how people will go out of their way here to provide data. For what it's worth to you, welcome to my RR list.
I'm glad that I could help
Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 3): So it looks like those MD-83s really do spend most of their time in short little shuttle flights,
Yupp, looks like, but they are short haul aircrafts and still spend a lot of time in the air. Our MD11Fs are about 14- 15 hours a day in the air. Which isn't too bad... During our high demand season (christmas etc) we reach nearly 17 hours in the air a day... busy bitch
WILCO737 (MD11F)
If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.
Well, you went out of your way for me and I appreciate that.
Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 4):
Yupp, looks like, but they are short haul aircrafts and still spend a lot of time in the air.
Maybe it should have been obvious to me, since they are the sort of aircraft designed for city hopping. It's just that I don't experience that sort of travel very often so it didn't look right.
"Sure, Captain - I like films about gladiators. Why do you ask?"
WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 4215 posts, RR: 68 Reply 6, posted (5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 972 times:
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Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 5): Maybe it should have been obvious to me, since they are the sort of aircraft designed for city hopping. It's just that I don't experience that sort of travel very often so it didn't look right.
That's why LH is in trouble with their A300. They were build for medium haul flights and now they are mostly flying: FRA-HAM or FRA-MUC, FRA-TXL, so pretty short hops. These A300 are far away from their hour limit certified by Airbus, BUT they are close to their cycle limit... Because the aircraft wasn't built for so many short haul flights.
WILCO737 (MD11F)
If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.
BAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 940 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 967 times:
Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 6): These A300 are far away from their hour limit certified by Airbus, BUT they are close to their cycle limit... Because the aircraft wasn't built for so many short haul flights.
Looks like they might become expensive in the long term then. Either that, or someone is going to get a bargain until they have to pay for a C check!
"Sure, Captain - I like films about gladiators. Why do you ask?"
WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 4215 posts, RR: 68 Reply 8, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 964 times:
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Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7): Looks like they might become expensive in the long term then. Either that, or someone is going to get a bargain until they have to pay for a C check!
We'll see what replacement there will be in the future But the flights between HAM and MUC and TXL and FRA are usually pretty full in the A300. Unbelievable
WILCO737 (MD11F)
If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.
WILCO737 From Germany, joined Jun 2004, 4215 posts, RR: 68 Reply 10, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 955 times:
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Quoting Metroliner (Reply 9): I agree, I got a ride on two LH A300s, from HAM-FRA and then from FRA-LHR, and it was packed 80%+ on both legs. I was pretty impressed with them...
Yeah, I spent several flights on the jumpseat because the filght was overbooked on the flight HAM-FRA-HAM... pretty impressive.
Quoting Metroliner (Reply 9): P.s. WILCO737, Sie haben Post... Smile
And already replied to it
WILCO737 (MD11F)
If it ain't Boeing (or McDonnell Douglas), I am not going.
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 3505 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 949 times:
Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 6): That's why LH is in trouble with their A300. They were build for medium haul flights and now they are mostly flying: FRA-HAM or FRA-MUC, FRA-TXL, so pretty short hops. These A300 are far away from their hour limit certified by Airbus, BUT they are close to their cycle limit... Because the aircraft wasn't built for so many short haul flights.
Hey, American in the lat 1980's/early 1990's was abusing DC-10's (10-10 models?) by flying them on intra-Texas flights. ELP-DFW, SAT-DFW were the two that I was aware of...when the US Air Force sent me to Lackland AFB for my field training, I was suprised to find the plane waiting at the gate in DFW to be a DC-10. The flight lasted 40 minutes.
Rulebooks and regulations are made from paper...and they do a poor job at preventing metal from contacting rock-Ernest G
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 12935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 12, posted (5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 886 times:
Well, out here in the far east many of the long haulers are hardly taxed for range. The extreme example is the 747-400D which flies intra-Japan. But even 4-5 hour flights like HKG-DPS or HKG-SIN are operated by 747s, 777s and 330s.
Less frequency, more pax/flight.
My real self is a Blood Elf Mage in Azeroth. Meet him on Boulderfist.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 7102 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 875 times:
Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 5): Maybe it should have been obvious to me, since they are the sort of aircraft designed for city hopping. It's just that I don't experience that sort of travel very often so it didn't look right.
Following reply to an earlier thread in March this year re older aircraft. The last two columns (following the delivery date) show the cycles and hours (in that order) of the last NW DC-9-10s at the time they were retired to the desert a couple of years ago. Most had pretty close to 100,000 hours with an average flight time of not much over one hour during 40 years in service. All except the last one were originally delivered to Eastern Airlines. The last one begain life with Swissair.
Here is the info on the remaining -10 aircraft and they are all parked/stored...
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 3505 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 856 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
Well, out here in the far east many of the long haulers are hardly taxed for range. The extreme example is the 747-400D which flies intra-Japan. But even 4-5 hour flights like HKG-DPS or HKG-SIN are operated by 747s, 777s and 330s.
Less frequency, more pax/flight.
Indeed. My first 777 flight was on SQ, SIN-PEN, a one hour flight
Rulebooks and regulations are made from paper...and they do a poor job at preventing metal from contacting rock-Ernest G
Vikkyvik From United States, joined Jul 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 839 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12): The extreme example is the 747-400D which flies intra-Japan.
The -400D was specifically designed for that market, though, was it not? I mean, I assume they didn't make TOO many changes, but no winglets, and whatever else...
Britney used to have a Gulfstream IV. Now she had to sell it and get a Gulfstream III because YOU downloaded her music
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 12935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 17, posted (5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 830 times:
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 16): Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
The extreme example is the 747-400D which flies intra-Japan.
The -400D was specifically designed for that market, though, was it not? I mean, I assume they didn't make TOO many changes, but no winglets, and whatever else...
Of course you are correct. The 400D is a case where the product was actually adapted to market conditions. But it is still symptomatic of the high density short to medium haul routes abundant in the Far East.
Quoting Brons2 (Reply 15): Is this the highest hour 744 that LH has? 101,730 hours is a lot, and it probably won't be retired until the 748 arrives.
"A lot" how? Well maintained this aircraft can keep flying indefinitely.
My real self is a Blood Elf Mage in Azeroth. Meet him on Boulderfist.
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