Icareflies From United States, joined Jul 2007, 30 posts, RR: 3 Posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4287 times:
Hello all,
I've been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first time posting on the site, finally!
Last Saturday, I was in SJO waiting for my CO plane to get back to the US.
The incoming plane arrived 1 hour late, which caused my scheduled flight to leave 40mn behind schedule. ( With little time to get the plane ready, the people from SJO and the CO F/A did a wonderful job getting the plane ready to leave as soon as possible ).
To my surprise, after pushing instead of going toward the line behind a couple of TACA A320 planes, we went the opposite way to the runaway and took off from the other side compare to the other planes.
Why is that and how often does this happen?
Chase From United States, joined Nov 2005, 794 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4227 times:
Well, in general they'll switch directions due to wind direction. But I think it usually takes a while to make that switch, so that you don't have outbound aircraft coming at inbound ones, correct? Are you meaning that aircraft #1 took off Eastbound, #2 took off Eastbound, #3 (yours) took off Westbound, and then presumably #4 took off Eastbound, all in a relatively short period of time?
PS I hope you enjoyed your trip to SJO. I went there in October and it was great!
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 3503 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4214 times:
Maybe the tower allowed them to do this to help the crew get back on schedule? (assuming it was quicker to taxi to the "wrong" end of the runway...). Just a guess.
Rulebooks and regulations are made from paper...and they do a poor job at preventing metal from contacting rock-Ernest G
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12631 posts, RR: 75 Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4198 times:
Quoting Icareflies (Thread starter): To my surprise, after pushing instead of going toward the line behind a couple of TACA A320 planes, we went the opposite way to the runaway and took off from the other side compare to the other planes.
Why is that and how often does this happen?
We usually call them "opposite direction takeoffs" and they can (and in some cases, must) be done for a variety of reasons.
-Sometimes it's due to terrain issues. A good example is runway 18/36 at TVL. You land on 18 and depart on 36, all due to rising terrain south of the airport.
-Sometimes it's due to aircraft performace issues. A good example of that is 07L/25R at LAS. The normal flow out there is to use 25R for departures, but 25R has a pretty major uphill slope so max takeoff weights suffer in the summertime. Conversely, 07L has a downhill slope, and takeoff weights are much better than 25R, so flights that need 07L have to wait until ATC can build a "hole" in the line of 25R arrivals that are further out.
-Sometimes, it's to make-up time, assuming you're headed back in the same direction that you just came in from. A good example is ELP, where a DAL-ELP flight might use 26L for landing, and 08R to depart back ELP-DAL.
There are other possible situations, too many to list, but a couple of things that have to happen are that the surface winds have to be within tailwind limits, and ATC has to be able to accomodate the request.
It's been ages since I dispatched anything to SJO, so I can't say with any degree of certainty what the situation was for your flight, but I'm guessing it was probably one of the ones I mentioned.
[Edited 2008-02-26 17:48:19]
Carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks.
Atpcliff From United States, joined Jun 2001, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4152 times:
Hi!
If the tailwind is less than 10 kts (the FAA jet limit), and you're closer to the departure end of a runway, you always ask for an opposite direction takeoff, if it will help you leave quicker, and it is practical (safety, ATC, etc.).
cliff
KYIP
TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
I asked the same kind of question last summer after seeing a NW 747-400 taking off in the opposite direction to the regular flow. This might provide some further insight.
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AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 2283 posts, RR: 15 Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
One time in SCL, Our flight to MEX took off to the North. While all other departures were being done to the South. I asked the pilot about it later, and he said it was to save time, since the winds were calm and traffic light. Hope this helps.
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 9328 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3826 times:
airport info bit:
Runway 7 or 25 may be used for departure. Significant weight penalty for
departures on runway 7 due to terrain. If runway 7 is the active departure runway
but you are too heavy to lift desired load off of runway 7, recommend entering
actual tailwind into AWP (up to 15kts) and checking performance on runway 25
before reducing payload and departing runway 7. Coordination with ATC will be
required to depart 25 when traffic is departing 7.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 3503 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3746 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4): -Sometimes, it's to make-up time, assuming you're headed back in the same direction that you just came in from. A good example is ELP, where a DAL-ELP flight might use 26L for landing, and 08R to depart back ELP-DAL.
If you're at the right gate (for WN, that's your two gates on the North side of the B concourse), and you push back for an 8R departure at ELP, your taxi distance is only about 800 feet
Rulebooks and regulations are made from paper...and they do a poor job at preventing metal from contacting rock-Ernest G
And you don't need to queue up behind all the other aircrafts!
Conjestion at ELP is when you're #3 for departure...IIRC, there's ~70 scheduled departures daily, and only about 48 of those are passenger ops (the rest are freight)
Rulebooks and regulations are made from paper...and they do a poor job at preventing metal from contacting rock-Ernest G
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 1457 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3376 times:
That is quite common at SJO.
There is a big weight penalty for a 07 departure, and sometimes for some (far) destinations, 25 is the only option. However, often you have to wait quite a while, as there can be no arrivals on 07, and the 07 approach/25 departure path has to be clear.
ATC at SJO is very accommodating and sympathetic when you need 25, but one still has to wait their turn.
On average, more people are killed yearly by falling coconuts (150), than by sharks (10).
Icareflies From United States, joined Jul 2007, 30 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
Quoting: OPNLguy
-Sometimes, it's to make-up time, assuming you're headed back in the same direction that you just came in from. A good example is ELP, where a DAL-ELP flight might use 26L for landing, and 08R to depart back ELP-DAL.
In my case I would think it is the mean reason because we were the only plane late and the planes after us took off as usual.
I didn't know it was possible. But I guess that day the wind was pretty low so no real impact on take off.
Thank you guys for your help.
PS: Yes Costa Rica was nice especially in February when you live in Chicago
ATCGOD From United States, joined Aug 2006, 594 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1938 times:
We get that a lot at Boise too. QX destinations to the west (Seattle, Portland) the pilots will generally early morning or late evening ask for (and most of the time receive) a 28 departure if winds are light and we can approve it. WN does that a lot too. It saves the airline money because taxiing a little longer to the other than active runway is a lot more efficient than departing and climbing back to the direction your destination is.
Nbgskygod From United States, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1027 times:
Many times pilots will ask for a different runway for departure to better affect taxi times and to make up time. It may also have been that some of the TACA planes were holding for some sort of delay, so rather than have your flight join the queue the controllers moved your flight around them so you could leave.
This happens a lot. A flight taxiies out, and just before departure a Ground Stop or other delay pops up, and the flight is stuck. Sometimes its better to go back to the gate, but sometimes, its best just to stay put and wait it out.
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CosmicCruiser From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 997 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3): Maybe the tower allowed them to do this to help the crew get back on schedule?
My experience has always been that taking off "against the flow" does not save time in fact it usually is a bigger delay. I've never had ATC show preferential treatment to a flight because they were late, heck we're all late. If going against the flow got me out quicker I'd do it all the time. I've had depts that against the flow was required for perf. and our place in the sequence did not change.
Flykal From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 433 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 746 times:
Quote: Hi!
If the tailwind is less than 10 kts (the FAA jet limit), and you're closer to the departure end of a runway, you always ask for an opposite direction takeoff, if it will help you leave quicker, and it is practical (safety, ATC, etc.).
cliff
KYIP
Have to disagree with you there. I guess if you are flying into small regional airports, that may be possible, but you don't 'always' ask for an opposite direction takeoff at major airports. In fact, I've never heard that being asked once. As for an opposite direction takeoff being safer, I would suggest perhaps the opposite, especially if ATC has to worry about traffic separation.
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HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 25893 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 689 times:
Quoting Flykal (Reply 18): I guess if you are flying into small regional airports, that may be possible, but you don't 'always' ask for an opposite direction takeoff at major airports. In fact, I've never heard that being asked once
Out here it does occur & BOM is a major Airport.
About being granted permission by ATC frequently is another issue.
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