BravoGolf From United States, joined Apr 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
What are the major differences between Airbus and Boeing. I don't want 'the cross section is 3 inches bigger'. The first one I can think of is the Airbus is fly by wire and the Boeing is conventional controls. What are the others? different electrical systems, hydraulic systems etc.
Flipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 558 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3360 times:
BOEING ARE BETTER!!!! no I jest!
I think one of the major differences is that i think Airbus are cheaper to manufacture (neglecting the weakness of the dollar) than Boeing are.
The way you say Airbus are fly by wire and Boeing are conventional isn't quite right. The T7 is fly by wire but the Airbus have flight envelope protection which stops the pilot pushing the aircraft too far.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 2985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3271 times:
I think if you were to look closely Airbus and Boeing aircraft have a lot of things in common. While of different design both companies use the same manufactures for their: engines, landing gear, flight control systems, hydraulic pumps, electrical systems, environmental controls, entertainment systems, seats (cabin and flight station), APU's, flight station instruments, weather radar, wheels tires and brakes, etc.
Legoguy From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 3063 posts, RR: 29 Reply 4, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3258 times:
Boeing tend to have a greater angle of wing sweep than Airbus aircraft. Due to this Boeing aircraft tend to have double Fowler flaps where as Airbus have single slot flaps. Perhaps someone could verify that?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 26086 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3202 times:
Quoting BravoGolf (Thread starter): The first one I can think of is the Airbus is fly by wire and the Boeing is conventional controls
Ever heard of the B777s
Mx spares of Airbus are def more expensive than Boeing.After the A310s,Airbus uses the Sidestick controls as with the Boeing use of the control column.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 4019 posts, RR: 28 Reply 8, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2878 times:
Quoting BravoGolf (Thread starter): What are the major differences between Airbus and Boeing.
Control philosophy:
Airbus: Interpret the commands of the pilot based on what the airplane can do. The airplane is in control, the pilot is providing the high-level "strategy."
Boeing: Follow the commands of the pilot to the extent physically possible. The pilot is in control, the airplane tries its best to follow.
Construction:
Airbus: Cheaper/less complex manufacturing at the expense of some weight.
Boeing: More expensive/complex manufacturing in order to achieve minimum weight.
Quoting Legoguy (Reply 4): Boeing tend to have a greater angle of wing sweep than Airbus aircraft. Due to this Boeing aircraft tend to have double Fowler flaps where as Airbus have single slot flaps. Perhaps someone could verify that?
Boeing is headed for single-slotted across the board, although this distinction used to be true.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1886 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2840 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8): Airbus: Interpret the commands of the pilot based on what the airplane can do. The airplane is in control, the pilot is providing the high-level "strategy."
That's a little controversial. The Airbus pilot is always in control. If the aircraft is in control, the pilot has lost the plot.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
BravoGolf From United States, joined Apr 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2819 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
Control philosophy:
Airbus: Interpret the commands of the pilot based on what the airplane can do. The airplane is in control, the pilot is providing the high-level "strategy."
Boeing: Follow the commands of the pilot to the extent physically possible. The pilot is in control, the airplane tries its best to follow.
Construction:
Airbus: Cheaper/less complex manufacturing at the expense of some weight.
Boeing: More expensive/complex manufacturing in order to achieve minimum weight.
This is the type of discussion I was looking for. Lets try to keep it up. How about methods of construction and alloys used in construction?
Pygmalion From United States, joined Jun 2006, 763 posts, RR: 20 Reply 11, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2762 times:
Boeing tends to refine the designs more. AirBus drives costs down by similarity and reuse of parts and common extrusions. Boeing will trim off corners, shot peen parts and have multiple parts for similar usages to allow refinement of the design. One is not better than the other, it just a difference in philosophy. Its one of the reasons that Boeing is known for structural efficiency... but it costs more. There ends up being a value to price trade. Boeing aircraft tend to have higher initial cost but also a higher resale. Airbus aircraft are less to obtain and they tend to turnover faster.
Its not a big difference though and in some deals Boeing can't get to the same profit as Airbus drives them on price. With the dollar/Euro trade now though Boeing will tend to be able to give a better value at the same price as Airbus and still get high profit margins. Till it swings again....
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 4019 posts, RR: 28 Reply 12, posted (11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2662 times:
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 9): Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):
Airbus: Interpret the commands of the pilot based on what the airplane can do. The airplane is in control, the pilot is providing the high-level "strategy."
That's a little controversial. The Airbus pilot is always in control. If the aircraft is in control, the pilot has lost the plot.
Although I know what you mean, I'm not sure it's right to say the pilot is in control. He's certainly in command, but there are commands the pilot can give an Airbus that the aircraft will just ignore. Those same commands in a Boeing will result in the airplane attempting to do what the pilot asks (possibly screaming loudly the whole time), even if it's not good for the plane or pilot. The Airbus will say "No, I'm not going to do that!" while the Boeing will say "I'm just following orders!".
Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 10): How about methods of construction and alloys used in construction?
I think they're pretty similar on alloys. A good alloy for a particular application is a good alloy for that application, so I'd expect a lot of alloy commonality. I agree with Pygmalion on methods of construction...Airbus puts more emphasis on simplicity and commonality where Boeing will optimize the thing to within an inch of its life, even if it results in twelve different parts that require twice as many manufacturing steps and basically do the same thing. Neither one is wrong, it's just a different emphasis.
BravoGolf From United States, joined Apr 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2651 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
I think they're pretty similar on alloys. A good alloy for a particular application is a good alloy for that application, so I'd expect a lot of alloy commonality. I agree with Pygmalion on methods of construction...Airbus puts more emphasis on simplicity and commonality where Boeing will optimize the thing to within an inch of its life, even if it results in twelve different parts that require twice as many manufacturing steps and basically do the same thing. Neither one is wrong, it's just a different emphasis.
The reason I ask is I understand that the alloy Douglas used was not as prone to corrosion as the one Boeing used. You could also pinhole a small crack on a Douglas to stop it and that was not possible on the Boeing.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1886 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12): Although I know what you mean, I'm not sure it's right to say the pilot is in control. He's certainly in command, but there are commands the pilot can give an Airbus that the aircraft will just ignore. Those same commands in a Boeing will result in the airplane attempting to do what the pilot asks (possibly screaming loudly the whole time), even if it's not good for the plane or pilot. The Airbus will say "No, I'm not going to do that!" while the Boeing will say "I'm just following orders!".
No Airbus driver would agree with this. The only time this might happen is in an extreme attitude. Under normal flying conditions within the flight envelope it won't. If a pilot pushes the Boeing in a similar fashion the laws of physics will take control from him.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 2985 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 15): No Airbus driver would agree with this. The only time this might happen is in an extreme attitude. Under normal flying conditions within the flight envelope it won't. If a pilot pushes the Boeing in a similar fashion the laws of physics will take control from him.
So it comes down to what (who) do you trust more, the laws of physics or some French computer programmer?
Astuteman From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2005, 5058 posts, RR: 69 Reply 20, posted (11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2437 times:
Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 11): Boeing tends to refine the designs more. AirBus drives costs down by similarity and reuse of parts and common extrusions. Boeing will trim off corners, shot peen parts and have multiple parts for similar usages to allow refinement of the design. One is not better than the other, it just a difference in philosophy.
For what its worth, I don't believe Airbus would ever have climbed up from a "niche" one-product player to the firm they are today without this production engineering philosophy. It allowed them to go from the A300 right through to the A340NG's in a relatively straightforward manner, accepting that in the latter case, they probably exceeded the limits of the philosophy.
Today, I suspect that the design philosophies of the two firms are converging........
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