Wardialer From United States, joined Sep 2001, 947 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 510 times:
Has any commercial pilot that has flown from Los Angeles to Europe? Well, my question is, once they have reached FL310 and above and they leave the Los Angeles Center areas and once they contact...lets say...Salt Lake City Center al lthey have to report is their current position, speed, time, and altitude??
And once the pilot reports that, does Center answer back and say ONLY these words like: "KLM 602 Heavy...Salt Lake City Center rodger....." and thats it??? Or does Center file a new clearance for them during these ARTCC Center passovers??
XJRamper From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 38 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 500 times:
The basic fundamentals of a clearance says that the aircraft receives a clearance limit. If they are doing no stops they normally get a cleared to LHR clearance. Your flight clearance doesnt change.
SPREE34 From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1344 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 491 times:
Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter): er al lthey have to report is their current position, speed, time, and altitude??
All they need to report is the altitude, and that is so we may confirm the altitude readout on the radar. ie: ACFT..."Salt Lake Center Cactus one twelve flight level three five zero." ATC..."Cactus one twelve Salt Lake Center roger."
In radar control ATC already knows position, speed, route of flight etc.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3827 posts, RR: 53 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 490 times:
Quoting XJRamper (Reply 1): If they are doing no stops they normally get a cleared to LHR clearance. Your flight clearance doesn't change.
Your clearance isn't really to LHR. What really happens is your clearance is to the NAT system, or a random track. Once you get within 200NM of Gander/Moncton you then get your oceanic clearance, or if so equipped you can get it via ACARS.
However, to answer the first question, on your initial contact with SOCAL departure, you report your call sign, passing altitude and altitude cleared to to them. They then verify the Mode C readout and say "radar contact". From that point on there is no position reporting required. There is no new flight plan filed since the original is still active.
Actually the clearance IS to LHR. Were it not you would be cleared to the Oceanic Entry Point, and no further. Prior to that point you have to be given Track Clearance or a Holding Clearance.
If you are one who scans ATC, listen to the Clearance Delivery frequency some time. You will hear "...cleared to the [name] airport as filed....."
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
NWA ARJ From United States, joined May 2001, 543 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 409 times:
"KLM 602 Heavy, Los Angeles Clearance Delivery, cleared to the London Heathrow airport via J45 (or the route of the flight), maintain 5000, expect flight level 310, 10 minutes after departure, departure frequency 126.1, squawk 3101.
So technically you are cleared to the airport, but you are cleared to fly there via the route that has been filed with ATC.
Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3827 posts, RR: 53 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 383 times:
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 4): Actually the clearance IS to LHR. Were it not you would be cleared to the Oceanic Entry Point, and no further. Prior to that point you have to be given Track Clearance or a Holding Clearance.
So, you are saying that if you're NORDO you would enter the NAT? I don't think so...if you read the ICAO procedures for the NAT you will find it takes a separate clearance to enter the NAT. Once you're in the NAT and become NORDO, that's a completely different story.
CosmicCruiser From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1470 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 373 times:
Hey fellas, I've been thinking about this and even made a phone call to ARTCC to find the definitive answer. It looks like we may be arguing over a very technical point that has no true answer that will satisfy everyone without calling up Gander or Shanwick on the phone. According to ATC when they issue you your clearance it's full route to destination and that's your clearance limit (as far as they're concerned). Granted the NATS is a strange and exceptional situation that you cannot proceed past the coast out point without a confirmed oceanic clearance even though you have been cleared to dest. Your co. has filed you on a track or R.R. and your oceanic clearance is required as a confirmation of the filed or modified route. If something did prevent you from getting this clearance then yes it's true you cannot coastout. It sorta of reminds me of some FIR boundries that have ball notes on the chart saying do not enter XXX airspace without contacting XXX control 15 min prior to the FIR. Without contact you must do a 180 even with a IFR clearance to dest.
Tg 747-300 From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 1318 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 313 times:
Since we are talking about clearances. Why is it that ATC almost always tells you to expect xxx altitude 10 min after dep. Why 10 mins. When I'm out flying the C172 I often get such a clearance on the ground, but as soon as i go from twr to dep, I'm most of the time cleared up to my filed and final altitude. So is the 10 min thing just a precautionary statement?
PSAjet17 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 180 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 306 times:
Quoting Tg 747-300 (Reply 9): Since we are talking about clearances. Why is it that ATC almost always tells you to expect xxx altitude 10 min after dep. Why 10 mins. When I'm out flying the C172 I often get such a clearance on the ground, but as soon as i go from twr to dep, I'm most of the time cleared up to my filed and final altitude. So is the 10 min thing just a precautionary statement?
When an aircraft is departing, say LAX going to JFK, they will not be cleared to their cruising altitude until they can be sequenced into the rest of the existing traffic. Withing 10 minutes, the controllers will have the plane spaced from other traffic and can determine if a clear path to the requested cruising altitude exists and then will issue clearance.
In your case, with a C172, you are probably not climbing to the higher altitudes (FL180 and up) so it is easier to clear you to your final altitude immediately unless you are departing a congested flight area. (Your final altitude might be the other guys initial altitude)
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