Why is it necessary to stand on the wing,rather than Deicing from the ground.MD82 wing isn't so high.
Secondly precautions while on slippery wing.Any holddown safety equipment used.
We have never had to do Deicing out here.Its a new thing.
regds
MEL
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9994 posts, RR: 72 Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1656 times:
"isn't so high"
They must grow some very tall people where you live. I am just under six feet and cannot even see on top the wing when standing on the ground next to it.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9994 posts, RR: 72 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1598 times:
Okay then. Actually the DC-9 and MD-80 have a special ice problem on the upper wing surface, in the vicinity of the landing gear well. Ice will melt from other parts of the wing and re-freeze in that area. I have had this happen to me before it was really widely known. On rotation, two large slabs of ice that had been completely invisible from the ground and even from out of the cabin windows, separated and went through both engines. It damaged 29 of the first-stage fan blades and we very nearly had a double engine failure.
Since about that time, here in the US, this type airplane has had special ice removal procedures. I've seen MD-80s being shot with glycol on a 50 degree day. Don't know what the rules are in any other country but the problem is there.
DeltaGuy From United States, joined Sep 2001, 4108 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1565 times:
Wing icing on the Mad Dogs is something you don't mess with, as the stories above have well shown. DL's 88's now have overwing heater blankets/tactile wing inspection lights in the cockpit, which help to remedy this problem.
DeltaGuy
Barack Hussein Obama is his own terrorist sleeper cell
707guy From United States, joined Jan 2001, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1557 times:
The reason for the ice is that the wing fuel tanks are in that area and when the fuel becomes "supercool" at altitude, ice will form on the wing surfaces above and below the tanks when the aircraft re-enters warmer air upon decent. The heaters (when operable) take care of this issue.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 9597 posts, RR: 62 Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1556 times:
Still I wouldn´t climb on a wing for deicing. Too much danger of being back on the ground faster than I climbed up. I had to overwing fuel a 727 in winter once because the filling valve was broken. I had to tie some cleaning rags around my boots to have enough traction to stand on the wing, and even then, I rather crawled out on elbows and knees...
Wbmech From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1545 times:
Definitely would not stand like that on an icy or even glycol covered wing. There are much safer ways to deice a lawn dart's wing. Either from the rear safely on the ground, from the front on a ladder, or the safest, in the deice bucket. To check you use a special ladder leaned against the wing and a long thin stick with a rubber tip on the end to feel for any remaining ice.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9994 posts, RR: 72 Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1494 times:
I had the experience in Reply #3 in a DC-9 not an MD.
Amen on the wingwalk. I stepped out there once and walked out about fifteen feet or so and started a slow slide toward the trailing edge. I crouched down and waited to slide off, but stopped sliding so I carefully walked back to the overwing. Never again.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9994 posts, RR: 72 Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1445 times:
Never heard the Vodka story but we once had to take up a collection from our passengers to pay for about 1200 gallons of jet-A. Most embarassing. Reimbursed them in cash at the next landing.
I've been told that Alaska used to get a FOLLOW ME bicycle to lead them in at Magadan or Khabarovsk.
Vneplus5 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1426 times:
I've been told that Alaska used to get a FOLLOW ME bicycle to lead them in at Magadan or Khabarovsk.
I've had one of those at a provincial French airport before
In Ukraine they use a lot of bikes to get around on the ramp that I've seen. Makes sense if you haven't got lots of Hryvna to throw away on expensive new ramp vehicles.
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12724 posts, RR: 75 Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1425 times:
>>>Never heard the Vodka story but we once had to take up a collection from our passengers to pay for about 1200 gallons of jet-A. Most embarrassing. Reimbursed them in cash at the next landing.
More than once in past years, we've diverted to some obscure off-line alternate where they've never heard of us, and the captain has whipped out his AMEX to pay for the gas. Some dispatchers have also used their personal Exxon, Texaco, or Shell cards... All were promptly reimbursed. The captain who used his gold AMEX subsequently got an invitation for a platinum card as a result.
>>I've been told that Alaska used to get a FOLLOW ME bicycle to lead them in at Magadan or Khabarovsk.
Those names seem familiar, and I wonder if it was an Alaska flight?
Carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 26080 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1266 times:
I've been told that Alaska used to get a FOLLOW ME bicycle to lead them in at Magadan or Khabarovsk.
And to think of it Leave alone a Bicycle out here its tough even getting ones personal Four wheeler in the Airside withhout a list of Permissions.
regds
MEL
JetMechMD80 From United States, joined Jul 2004, 380 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
"More than once in past years, we've diverted to some obscure off-line alternate where they've never heard of us, and the captain has whipped out his AMEX to pay for the gas. Some dispatchers have also used their personal Exxon, Texaco, or Shell cards... All were promptly reimbursed. The captain who used his gold AMEX subsequently got an invitation for a platinum card as a result."
Ahhh the aviation life
I was once a mechanic for a small 135 B-727 cargo operator who will remain nameless. They asked me to rep a "C" check. One day they called and asked if I could go pick up a part from DL at LAX. Seems this was a badly needed part. I don't remember what it was anymore. Anyway, I asked if the part was paid for, they said yes. When I got to LAX, I found out that the "paid for" part was now COD. It was almost $1200.00. I found an ATM, I was lucky that I had a couple of hundred in my pocket already. Upon getting back to the hanger, the maintenance supervisor ran up, smiling saying "you got our part"! I said no, I have MY part, and until I get paid back, I am keeping it. Call me at the hotel when you get the money. This guy, the project manager, and a couple of other suits got together, and took up a collection. When they had the money, he stuck out his hand wanting the part, I grabbed the money, he grabbed the part, and neither of us would let go! It was like some kind of a drug deal, or something. LOL
BTW: I wouldn't stand on any wing spraying de-ice fluid.
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 13034 posts, RR: 57 Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1229 times:
Okay then. Actually the DC-9 and MD-80 have a special ice problem on the upper wing surface, in the vicinity of the landing gear well. Ice will melt from other parts of the wing and re-freeze in that area. I have had this happen to me before it was really widely known. On rotation, two large slabs of ice that had been completely invisible from the ground and even from out of the cabin windows, separated and went through both engines. It damaged 29 of the first-stage fan blades and we very nearly had a double engine failure.
Since about that time, here in the US, this type airplane has had special ice removal procedures. I've seen MD-80s being shot with glycol on a 50 degree day. Don't know what the rules are in any other country but the problem is there.
The tactile inspection requirement was introduced after the Gottröra accident (in Sweden only?). I guess Slamclick had a similar experience as that accident, although his engines were still alive (barely).
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Wbmech From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1224 times:
Yes, before the tactile inspection requirement engines were fodded out with no apparent reason at many operators because the ice would melt leaving no evidence of foreign materials behind. It took a major accident for something to be done to really investigate the cause. It is unfortunate but often times it takes the loss of life for some things to get done.
Philhyde From United States, joined Aug 2003, 604 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1197 times:
I really don't understand why that fellow was standing on the wing applying the de-ice substance, but.... he was, so I'll leave it at that.
What is not clear to me is the bit about DC-9 and MD-8x aircraft having "special" de-icing requirements. Since I'm not the expert, are you guys saying that the top of the wing on other aircraft is not normally de-iced? I can't say that I've ever paid close enough attention as to which parts of the aircraft were de-iced.
DeltaGuy From United States, joined Sep 2001, 4108 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1186 times:
are you guys saying that the top of the wing on other aircraft is not normally de-iced
Not saying that at all lol....Every aircraft should be de-iced, what they were more concerned about was the MD's tendency to form ice in not-so-good places, even after de-icing...cold soaked fuel and all too. Ice on a wing disrupts the normal laminar airflow, but on an MD, it'll do that plus choke your engines, in short.
I'd want to stay off the wing not only when iced, but even when wet...the Mad Dog's wings aren't that wide! As far as I can tell, there's not alot of non-slip on em too, except on the exit areas.
DeltaGuy
Barack Hussein Obama is his own terrorist sleeper cell
MD-90 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 7156 posts, RR: 15 Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1151 times:
I guess none of y'all would care for the "good old days" when a certain airline who shall remain nameless decided that it was a good idea to have fitted wing covers for its Connies that had to be manually put on and taken off--by guys standing on the often-snowy wings.
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