Quote: The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) is stepping up its lobbying efforts for a full order of 100 F-35 Lightning IIs, a number that has been officially endorsed but could easily be trimmed in a defense white paper due next year.
The chief of the air force, Air Marshal Mark Binskin, strongly defends the choice of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 as its next fighter, arguing that it will be part of an integrated airpower system and the country could not hope to find better.
He also endorses the Boeing 737 Airborne Early Warning & Control Wedgetail and Airbus A330 tankers – both on order for Australia but running late – as the best equipment available.
The F-35 will be the best multirole fighter in the world, Binskin says, and will be able to beat advanced Russian fighters because it will be backed by other superior equipment and superior personnel.
“It will have the best radar, the best defensive system of any of those aircraft in the world,” Binskin said in a speech reported by the Australian Associated Press.
“It will be supported by the best airborne early warning and control aircraft and the best tanker in the world and flown, maintained and supported by the best people in the world,” he reportedly said. “I’ve got to tell you: the system ain’t going to get any better than that.”
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Kent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 month 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1487 times:
Not really that many - they're intended to replace the 20 F-111 and 71 F/A-18, so only a small increase in strength. Not sure what is intended longer term with the 24 stop-gap Super Hornets possibly being purchased. And the most recent talk is that any order will be for 75 only.
And Oz land area is similar to that of the continental USA....
MCIGuy From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1495 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 month 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1445 times:
Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 2): Not really that many - they're intended to replace the 20 F-111 and 71 F/A-18, so only a small increase in strength. Not sure what is intended longer term with the 24 stop-gap Super Hornets possibly being purchased. And the most recent talk is that any order will be for 75 only.
And Oz land area is similar to that of the continental USA....
Kent
Yeah, but this just gives me the feeling that Australia will be an even more potent power in the region. 100 would make it the 400 lb. gorilla in the room.
BBaldwin09 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 12 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1423 times:
I also heard about the RAAF cutting back to three squadrons (75 Aircraft) instead of four. But as the initial article states, all these decisions are pending the White Paper report.
The AEW&C Wedgetail has come too far along to be cancelled now, and the MRTT has a small agreeable delay but nothing that was not expected. This is according to Air Marshal Mark Binskin in the latest issue of Australian Aviation.
Of interest, what would be Australia's other options with regards to a lead fighter? How about more Super Hornets (Supplemented by some E/A-18 Growlers) or what about a Eurofighter Typhoon? Its the billion dollar question!
Lumberton From United States, joined Jul 2005, 3546 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1336 times:
Quoting BBaldwin09 (Reply 4): Of interest, what would be Australia's other options with regards to a lead fighter? How about more Super Hornets (Supplemented by some E/A-18 Growlers) or what about a Eurofighter Typhoon? Its the billion dollar question!
Believe there are several threads on Mil Av where it's been discussed already.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 1054 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1318 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 1): That's a lot of firepower for 20 million people
Well, Norway has'nt decided on final amount of F 35's yet, but it is said to be 56. Considering that Norway is only 4.7 million people, it's not so strange that Australia needs 100...
Johns624 From United States, joined Jul 2008, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1289 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 6):
Well, Norway has'nt decided on final amount of F 35's yet, but it is said to be 56. Considering that Norway is only 4.7 million people, it's not so strange that Australia needs 100...
Meanwhile, over in New Zealand, which has a population almost the same as Norway's...
Flighty From United States, joined Apr 2007, 3296 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1260 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 6): Well, Norway has'nt decided on final amount of F 35's yet, but it is said to be 56. Considering that Norway is only 4.7 million people, it's not so strange that Australia needs 100...
No, and Australia has really a whole quadrant of the globe that is their sphere of influence / protection. Plus they do participate in international missions. With tankers, Australia can cover a great amount of territory. There is a lot of unruly stuff to their north that is only going to get more troublesome. I am talking Indonesia, New Guinea etc. Australia does have some need to ensure they can have air superiority there. With this equipment, especially the tankers, they will have the reach to cover their whole homeland.
As for Norway and 56 fighters, Norway has lots of money and a tradition of a strong air force. Beyond that I don't know anything about them. Maybe to hold the Russians in a resource fight to the north.
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 1054 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1173 times:
Norway's fighters are for survailance of an ocean area 7 times larger than mainland Norway. To look after oil fields and uphold Norway's soverignety. The planes are used to identify, look after and intersept Russian agression and ifa possible attack to " hold the fort " until the calvery comes ( USA, NATO, EU ).
Since the end of the cold war, Norwegian fighters have also been participating in international operations ( Kosovo and Afghanistan ) , doing survailance, escort and air support ( protecting soldiers on the ground ).
Personally I think 56 planes is way to little. When we ordered f 16's in the 70's, I think we ordered around 75...
Will Australia have other fighters at hand, or will they scrap the old ones and just have F 35's ?
Norway will only have the one type. There are no plans for keeping the F 16's as back up. So other than a few for some museums, I think they will either be sold or scrapped.
11Bravo From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1494 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1154 times:
Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 3): Yeah, but this just gives me the feeling that Australia will be an even more potent power in the region. 100 would make it the 400 lb. gorilla in the room.
Good,… Australia has a proven track record of upholding the highest standards of international behavior, and they are, without question, a committed and loyal friend of the United States. I believe it is in almost everyone's interest to have them remain the preeminent political and military power in the SW Pacific.
MCIGuy From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1495 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 11): Good,… Australia has a proven track record of upholding the highest standards of international behavior, and they are, without question, a committed and loyal friend of the United States. I believe it is in almost everyone's interest to have them remain the preeminent political and military power in the SW Pacific.
Oh I agree, the Lightning sale will only add stability to the region. Not to mention that they have neighbors in the region who aren't the friendliest.
Johns624 From United States, joined Jul 2008, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 weeks 1 day 23 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 716 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8): Yes, but Norway has special obligations in NATO to survailance the North / arctic region and to intersept possible Russian agression.
My point exactly. Norway participates in international missions and believes in the common defense.
Cloudy From United States, joined Apr 2002, 1802 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (4 weeks 12 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 562 times:
Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12): Oh I agree, the Lightning sale will only add stability to the region. Not to mention that they have neighbors in the region who aren't the friendliest.
Eastern Asia and the Pacific Rim are huge regions, and "neighbor" is a relative term. China, which seems to be the greatest long term worry, is actually pretty far away. Roughly, it can be compared to the distance between the US and Europe. One would need superpower capabilities to project significant power that distance.
Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore are relatively close to the North coast. None of these are anything close to a near term threat - though I suppose one could make a case that Indonesia could be someday. The North coast is lightly populated. The bulk of Australia's population is pretty far away even from Southeast Asia - at least in military terms.
Home defense, then, appears to be a secondary need at the moment. The greatest need would appear to be the ability to contribute forces to peacekeeping missions - particularly in Southeast Asia - in order to prevent a major threat from arising in the first place. Another major need is commerce protection, to protect the sea trade vital to the nation's economy. Also, it is helpful to have a base on which to build a larger force should a major long term threat arise.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 8202 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (4 weeks 8 hours 24 minutes ago) and read 523 times:
Quoting Cloudy (Reply 15): Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore are relatively close to the North coast. None of these are anything close to a near term threat - though I suppose one could make a case that Indonesia could be someday.
That is a lot more realistic. In fact, far from being a current threat: http://livenews.com.au/articles/2008...caps_off_busy_year_with_Bali_visit
Rudd caps off busy year with Bali visit
9/12/2008 7:16:00 PM. | AAP The two-day conference, initiated by Dr Yudhoyono, is aimed at promoting democracy and strengthening democratic institutions within the region and around the globe.
"The Bali Democracy Forum and the new Institute for Peace and Democracy in Bali are significant projects of President Yudhoyono and deserve the support of regional countries," Mr Rudd said in a statement.
Got to hand it to SBY attacking under a cover like that!! For good measure he agreed to hand over a people smuggler for prosecution in Australia.
Other leaders attending the forum include East Timorese President Xanana Gusmao and the Sultan of Brunei, Hassanal Bolkiah.
Yup, the region is gripped by the crisis, send more bombers! Should have been a good time for spotters depending on which plane(S) the Sultan took with him.
The curious thing about most Indonesians is they do not like anywhere other than Indonesia very much. Not sure of current data but they used to show up regularly in the lowest (least frequent) part of the tables of visa overstayers in Aus - unlike the Brits I might say!!
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