RAFOHunter From United States, joined Dec 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 23782 times:
Does anyone know if any of the few remaining Lebanese Hawker Hunters, or indeed any aircraft, survived this latest round of bombing of the airfields before the UN ceasefire?
Migfan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 23819 times:
My bet is that they are either destroyed or grounded due to lack of spares. The pilots may also be suffering from lack of hours. I know that the Lebanese AF bought a few Robinson R44s last year.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23475 times:
Quoting RAFOHunter (Reply 4): OD720 - Any idea which Hunters were sold for parts and where or who they were sold to?
I have no idea. I have got the info some time ago through former pilots. I don't know how many are still stored at the Rayak AF Base.
Though your list looks very interesting.
From memory, in 1983, there were about 6 operational Hunters with the AF but later, they bought a small number as well. A friend then told me that they were bought from Zimbabwe. Is this true?
RAFOHunter From United States, joined Dec 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 23442 times:
Here's the full listing - with corrected serials - from my book on the Hunter - "Hawker Hunter Serials 1951 to 2006" available from http://www.lulu.com/content/383300.
You will see that none of the aircraft came from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. It seems to be an ever repeated urban myth that Rhodesia and Oman were suppliers of Hunters to many countries in the middle east and africa. Neither were, in fact they were the recipients of others countries Hunters.
LEBANON
AL QUWWAT AL JAWWIYA AL LUBNANLY
FORCE AERIENNE LIBANAISE
The Lebanese Air Force was initially supplied with 6 Hawker Hunter F.Mk.6’s from RAF stocks held in MU’s during 1958 and 1959, and these were paid for with US funds in the US Offshore Payment deal. The HSA demonstrator aircraft, G-APUX which was loaned to Iraq also was sub-leased to Lebanon and Jordan between 05-63 and 1965. Lebanese pilots were sent to Chivenor for training where they proved to be as good as the RAF pilots. The early Hunters were identifiable by their raked Lebanese flag fin insignia; later aircraft carried the horizontal flags.
Between 1965 and 1966, Lebanon received 3 T.Mk.66C’s and 4 FGA Mk.70’s converted from Belgian Aircraft, of these, 5 aircraft were lost during training. On the morning of June 5th 1967 a Lebanese Hunter was shot down by an Israeli Mirage near the Lebanon/Israel border.
A further 6 FGA Mk.70’s were ordered in 1975 from RAF stocks. 3 were delivered to Lebanon in early 1976 but the other three were delayed until after the civil war in Lebanon and were eventually delivered in 12-77.
On September 17th 1983, the Lebanese Hunters attacked Druze positions and were surprised with heavy defenses. One Hunter was shot down, the pilot managed to eject and was rescued from the sea by a US Navy SH-3D helicopter. A further Hunter was badly damaged and made a forced landing at the satellite base at Biblos. A third Hunter flew straight to Akrotiri in Cyprus where he later applied for political asylum. No record can be found of the disposition of the Hunter, although it is probable that it was handed back to Lebanon.
Examining satellite photographs of Lebanese air bases shows that there are few, if any, operational bases left untouched by at least some marks of conflict. In none of the photographs can any Hunters be seen, however if they are in storage they would be under cover, most likely in a hangar at Rayak AB. In view also of the conflict with Israel occurring in July 2006, it is unlikely that any information will be forthcoming. It remains to be seen, therefore, if any Hunters will emerge after all the conflict is finally over; but seems increasingly unlikely at this point. It is equally unlikely that any Hunters possibly still held in store could be used again. Long periods of storage require long periods of maintenance and rebuilding.
Hawker Hunter T.Mk.66A
567 ex-G-APUX Sub-leased to Lebanese Air Force by Iraq for training during 1964. Returned to HAL.
Hawker Lebanese Hunter T.Mk. 66C
Conversion order for three ex-Belgian Hunter F Mk. 6 aircraft to be Converted to two seat trainer standard (similar to that of the Indian T.Mk. 66) by Hawker Siddeley Aviation under Contract No.HSA/64/L/059 for delivery between 11-65 and 07-66.
See under;
Belgian Hunter Mk. 6s
L-280 ex-IF-34 Purchased by HSA. Converted to T.Mk.66C Delivered 27-07-66. W/O.
L-281 ex-IF- 60 Purchased by HSA. Converted to T.Mk.66C Delivered 15-11-65. W/O.
L-282 ex-IF-112 Purchased by HSA as G-9-119. Converted to T.Mk.66C Delivered 23-12-65. W/O.
Hawker Lebanese Hunter FGA Mk. 70
HSA supplied 5 F.Mk.6’s from former RAF stocks to Lebanon in 1958 as part of the US Offshore Payment deal and a further F.Mk.6 in 1962.
L-170 ex-XE598. Cen. Fuse. C/N 41H-679956. ff 16-4-56. David Lockspeiser. Delivered 11-5-56, A&AEE. Trials with gun-blast deflectors. Became Lebanese F Mk.6, 31-10-58.
L-171 ex-XF461 No.5MU, Kemble. Supplied to Lebanon in 1958 under US Offshore Payment.
L-172 ex-XE534. Cen. Fuse. C/N 41H-679909. ff 12-1-56. Duncan Simpson. Delivered 4-2-56, No.5MU, Kemble. Converted to Lebanese F.Mk.6, 22-5-62.
L-173 ex-XF377 CA aircraft, AWA, Bitteswell, 1956-57. Supplied to Lebanon in 1958 under US Offshore Payment. Crashed, on Bekka Plain while flying from Rayak, Lebanon; pilot ejected but killed. W/O, 26-3-62
L-174 ex-XG167 Delivered 18-2-57, No.5MU, Kemble. No.19 Sqn.,('F'). Supplied to Lebanon 13-10-58.
L-175 ex-XF495 No.5MU, Kemble. Supplied to Lebanon, 13-10-58 under US Offshore Payment.
Conversion order for four ex-Belgian Hunter F.Mk.6s to be refurbished and brought to full FGA Mk. 9 standard by HSA under Contract No.HSA/64/L/059, for delivery to Lebanon between 09-65 and 09-66.
See under;
Belgian Hunter F Mk. 6s
L-176 ex-IF-86. Purchased by HSA, 6-10-64, as G-9-110.Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 14-9-66.
L-177 ex-IF-96. Purchased by HSA, 7-10-64, as G-9-121. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 14-9-65.
L-178 ex-IF-129. Purchased by HSA, 10-11-64, as G-9-102. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 15-11-65.
L-179 ex-IF-101 Purchased by HSA as G-9-114. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70.
RAF F.Mk.6’s
L-280 ex-WW598 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-424. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 08-12-75.
L-281 ex-XF457 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-422. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 08-12-75.
L-282 ex-WW594 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-423. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 08-12-75.
L-283 ex-XF430 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-426. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 17-05-77
L-284 ex-XJ644 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-427. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 17-05-77.
L-285 ex-XJ640 Purchased by HSA, as G-9-425. Converted to Lebanese FGA Mk.70. Delivered 01-06-77.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 23264 times:
I've been told by a member here that he saw 2 Hunters in good condition (whatever that means) in one of the hangars at the Rayaq base during a visit back in March of this year.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23178 times:
I don't think that he has the serial numbers.
How many should there still be according to your census?
About the Zimbabwe rumour, I heard this back in 1983! We were 15 year olds then and a friend of mine (also 15 at the time) knew people in the air force and he passed me this info. Neither me, nor him were aware that Zimbabwe also operated Hunters. What I mean is that there could have been some truth in it.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23207 times:
I believe this photo was taken during the 80s.
This is the "sattelite base in Byblos" as you refer to. It was actually called the Halat strip which served as a base for the Hunters during the 80s. It was part of the high way in Byblos and developed by the help of the US, for the Hunters to operate in safety. The Beirut AF base was under the direct fire of the Druze militias.
In this photo, the Hunter is carrying rocket pods. 1000 and 500 lb retarded bombs were also used.
RAFOHunter From United States, joined Dec 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 23147 times:
A total of 19 Hunters were acquired plus one loaner (G-APUX).
Attrition details are very sketchy on Lebanese Hunters. Some sources say that of the initial 9 aircraft, 5 were lost in training accidents. We have record on one of the later crashes, L.173 and know that at least two were shot down and one other badly damaged. That doesn't really help with the census as that still leaves 11 aircraft!
There were reports in the 90's that there were "at least 6 Hunters still flying" but this was unconfirmed.
Other reports that I have heard place the survivors at 3 stored aircraft with Rayak being mentioned repeatedly as the location.
As there are only about 800 regular Air Force personel now, surely there must be someone who knows details.
I try to correspond directly with Air Forces, most times without success unfortunately, but in this case I am sure that the Air Force commanders have more important tasks at hand for now.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 22890 times:
I did manage to get hold of a retired Hunter pilot. We did have a very nice chat and was able to get a few things that you may find helpful.
Between 1978-1983, there were 10 Hunters flying.
Based on your list, these were the ones we found in his log book.
L-271 or L-171 according to your records. There were no Hunters in his log book with L-1** registrations and all appear L-2**
L-275
L-276
L-280
L-281
L-282
L-284
L-285
L-286 (T.66)
L-287 (T.66)
It seems that L-283 (ex-XF430) was probably lost right after delivery. It never appears in his log book.
L-281 was probably the one shot over the Shouf mountains in September 1983. This one's also missing in his log book after that date.
The Hunter that flew to Akrotiri was the one which was "badly damaged". Both the pilot and the Hunter (after repairs) were returned back to Lebanon. It was hit and the front gear (nose wheel) didn't deploy so it was flown to Cyprus, as advised by the Brits and Americans, since the short rwy at Byblos (Halate) could have damaged the aircraft beyond repairs.
Also, L-271, L-275 and L-276 were not used regularly for the same reason, the short rwy at Halate (Byblos), since they didn't have the tail chute compared to the other models.
Another Hunter was lost in 1989 over Batrun. The pilot ejected safely. We talked to him over the phone as well and he thought it was L-285 but was not sure. He says it may have been L-280.
When they were finally grounded in the early 90s, there were a total of 8 surviving Hunters. He believes all are stored at the Rayak base.
He noted that during the 1983-84 campaign, the Hunters (or the LAF) were ineffective mainly due to poor planning. They mainly used the Aden canons, 68 mm rocket pods with a mixed anti-armour and conventional ammunitions, and very very rarely, they used a few 500 lb dumb bombs.
Maybe in the future I can get more, but this is all for the time being.
Hunterson From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 22166 times:
Hello to all, I found your correspondence on the Lebanese Airforce and its Hunters most interesting. I am also a keen researcher on the LAF and its history, and I would be very grateful for any further info that anyone might have on that subject. Also, if anyone has photos of LAF aircraft through its history. I would be most g rateful to be able to have alook at.On the subject of the Hunters , does anyone have info on thr camouflage scheme in the 60s and early 70s, and which included red tailplanes and noses? Does anyone have photos of any LAF Hunters in that colour scheme, which was also shared during the same period by a number of Jordanian and Iraqi Hunters? Also, I would like to point out that LAF Hunter T66C serial no. L282 was donated to the Royal Jordanian AF in 1968, leaving the LAF with 2 T66Cs which remained in service till all Hunters were placed in storage in the early 90s.They were originall registered L280 and L281, but were reserialized in the late 70s as L286 and L287.The same happened with the surviving Hunter F6 and FGA70 from the late 50s and early 60s ,which used to be registered L170 onwards.They wre also renumbered in the late 70s as L270 onwards.This followed the delivery in 1976/77 of the 6 FGA70As, which were numbered L280 to L 285.If anyone has further info and/or pics on this PLS let me know.
RJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 22140 times:
As I see quite a few Hunter fans on this post, I though you'd enjoy an RJAF Hunter photo (I beleive they were escorting HM late King Hussein's Caravelle aircraft in the mid sixties).
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1882 posts, RR: 28 Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21970 times:
Quoting Hunterson (Reply 17): On the subject of the Hunters , does anyone have info on thr camouflage scheme in the 60s and early 70s, and which included red tailplanes and noses?
You probably mean this one:
I haven't seen any Hunters in this scheme, the example is a Vampire.
Hunterson From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 21873 times:
Hello to all , again . First, many thanks to the friends from Jordan and Lebanon for their replies and interesting photos. To my Lebanese friend , I would like to say that he is absolutely correct about the LAF Vampires. Indeed , there was a time when most LAF airplanes were sporting some form of colourful paint scheme ,which included red tails as well as red noses and wingtips. That applied even when the aircraft were camouflaged and included such types as the Chipmunk and T-6 Harvard trainers, the Vampire T55 and Fouga Magister armed trainers and, of course, the Hunters. This practie was followed throughout the 50s and 60s and up to at least the early 70s. I used to have colour photos of LAF Hunters painted that way, including F6, F70, and T66 , serial nos L171, L175, L176, L177, L178, and L179 single-seaters , and L280 two-seater all with red tails noses and wingtips ,and taken during that period. Also, I can still remember , as a kid, seeing LAF Hunters flying over Beirut and/or taking-off and landing at Beirut International Airport and the adjacent Airbase with that particular colour scheme up to the civil war in 1975 .Unfortunatly, I do not have those photos anymore, but I still have a few black and whites clearly showing the red tail/nose/wingtips and , of course, the standard grey/green camouflage. It seems certain that the LAF stopped using the red-colour treatment on its Hunter , and other types sometime in the mid or late 70s , and probably with the delivery of the 6 Hunter F70As in 76-77. As stated , these aircraft wre painted in the standard camouflage of grey/green with light grey under surfaces and the usual flag and rondels.Alsoof interest was the change in the serial numbers fromm L170-onwards to L270-onwards, and from white to black , similar to what the LAF had earlier adopted on its Mirage-3EL and BL fighters.
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