Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1019 posts, RR: 18 Posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1174 times:
I am wondering, why BGR is constantly loosing traffic over the past years. I remember in early 90ties having half a dozen of mainline aircrafts overnight at the ramp, planes as DL722 and MD80, CO with MD80, UL with a 721 but also COex with an ATR42, SF340 of BEX , Metro's, or Beech 1900's and so. During the day there was sometimes like an hourly flight to BOS and even some 6 years back you could spot frequent DL Do328 Jet's and American Eagle with the ERJ's keeping about same frequencies.
Now even American Eagle left and there is nothing left than 3 Comair CRJ's to BOS, two NW CRJ's to DTW the daily COex ERJ to EWR, two or three flights by USair to PHL and one or two daily CRJ's to ATL and CVG on behalf of DL. The thing is, everytime I go up there the flights are full to the last seat, regardless if I fly trough BOS, CVG or DTW. The loss of the shuttle with BOS I realize as a big loss. At least there are now two weekly Allegiant MD80's to SFB, actually the only "big aircraft" coming. Hopefully this flight will remain.
Sure, many of the international flights were lost as most classic charters were lost to the Legacies flying nonstop to about everywhere in the US at lower fares than ever. So BGR gets the remaining charters, which are the troop charters. Anyhow, domestic flights have been downsized from CRJ70's to 200's again or ARJ's to CRJ's and many flights are gone. Can someone explain why? I always have to run for a seat, so for my part it could easily have more flights and I would love to see more for sure. Thanks for explanations,
EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 7034 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1100 times:
Quoting Legacy135 (Thread starter): During the day there was sometimes like an hourly flight to BOS
Yup.... When I was based there with BEX we flew almost every hour on the hour to BOS from 0530 to around 730pm......and most flights were 60% full year round and packed in the summer. We also few to LGA 4 or 5 times a day. Eagle took over, pissed everyone off... cut the flights and finally closed the maintenance base...and cancelled all flights.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1019 posts, RR: 18 Reply 2, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1069 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1): Eagle took over, pissed everyone off
I was always wondering what happened with BEX as I used to fly with them real often and one day there were simply gone. Have they been taken over by Eagle or did Eagle only take over the flights?
They were bought by Eagle back in 1998 or so.... last flight was BOS to BGR I want to say late Nov 2000. Late last year they finally closed the maintenance base and cancelled all service to BGR.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
PWM2TXLHopper From United States, joined Jan 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 954 times:
Quoting Legacy135 (Thread starter): I am wondering, why BGR is constantly loosing traffic over the past years.
Well, there are a few factors. For one, Bangor, like many smaller cities, started loosing mainline aircraft in favor of RJ's when the RJ trend came along ten years ago. First, the jet's took over on routes that were formerly operated with turboprop aircraft. Then, 9/11 came along, with dire consequences to the airline industry. The airlines started laying off employees and closing stations, reducing their fleets and using RJ's on longer routes that were formally on mainline equipment. This is the first reason for the reductions in service to BGR.
Secondly, Maine is a very poor state. There's little industry/business here compared to most other states. Opportunities for good paying jobs for educated or skilled professionals are few, and this causes a lot of Maine's young, best and brightest to move somewhere out of state where there's more potential and money. With little business/ industry in Maine, and a relatively poor population of only 1.3 million, there's not a lot of demand for additional capacity at BGR. This bring me to the next issue. Location....
Maine is a big state, over 700 KM north to south. The majority of the population lives in the Southern and Central part of Maine. Closer to PWM than BGR. This is also the area of the state with a slightly better economy, and it is generally considered to be where most of Maine's good jobs and wealth is located. With this being the case, PWM tends to be Maine's primary airport, with BGR being number two. Both airports were traditionally expensive to fly out of until around two years ago when PWM got service from Jet Blue and Air Tran. When this happened, passenger numbers at PWM skyrocketed. Some of these passengers were people who lived closer to Bangor airport than PWM, but were siphoned away from BGR by the newly arrived and significantly cheaper fares. These types of passengers being drawn away from BGR have also contributed to a lot of the downsizing at BGR
As I mentioned above, people were drawn away from BGR in favor of PWM a couple years ago because Bangor has no LCC's of it's own. (with the exception of Alligiant service to Orlando x7) Airfares to/from BGR can be extreme, and this causes many passengers to seek other options, usually by traveling south to PWM, BOS, or MHT where they can save a lot of money vs flying out of their local airport at Bangor. Price isn't as much an issue for business travelers, but being in the Northern part of the state, Bangor really doesn't attract all too many business travelers for the simple reason there's not really a lot of business or industry in the area to support them traveling there.
The decrease in the amount of International flights didn't really have anything to do with the legacies competition, but had more to do with the fact aircraft's ranges increased as technology improved, and technical support stops for refueling such as were done at BGR became less common. We still get charters at BGR. Mostly going to the U.K. from Florida and all kinds of AMC military charters every day. Back in the 1970's, and even into the 80's, it wasn't uncommon to see TWA 747's, Pan Am 707's, KLM, etc. jets stopping in BGR for fuel and customs clearance.
EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 7034 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 889 times:
Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 4): There's little industry/business here compared to most other states. Opportunities for good paying jobs for educated or skilled professionals are few, and this causes a lot of Maine's young, best and brightest to move somewhere out of state where there's more potential and money.
I'd move back to Maine in once second... but for as noted above. No jobs.. No Pay.. High taxes
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
P3Orion From United States, joined May 2006, 249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 879 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5): I'd move back to Maine in once second
Portland, ME is fantastic! I fell in love with the Casco Bay region when I was controlling for the Navy at NHZ. Walter's Cafe and Gritty McDuff's in the Old Port cannot be beat.
"SKW5932 RWY 9R position and hold, traffic three mile final, be ready for an immediate."
Dude...you're not helping..!!! LoL. My Mom still has a house down on Great Island. Grew up with the P-3's flying over the house. They are right under the final approch to NHZ
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
P3Orion From United States, joined May 2006, 249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 831 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7): My Mom still has a house down on Great Island
So you're familiar with the Blues chasing the Pogies and the horrible stench that would follow. This October, I am taking Annual Leave to go to the Fryeburg Fair. You can bet I'll be at Gritty's for a Blackfly Stout and go to Pat's Pizza for some pie...Good times.
[Edited 2008-05-15 19:34:00]
"SKW5932 RWY 9R position and hold, traffic three mile final, be ready for an immediate."
Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1019 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 638 times:
Thanks guys for the detailed information you provided. So Eagle seems to have provided a good part of the actual situation up in Maine. How lovely it would be to have BEX there flying some nice ERJ's, the way it once was planned......
I actually came there first time in May 88 as a "Junior Air-Steward" of former Balair, flying the DC10 from ZRH trough BGR to LAX, later on to SFO and the A310 also to MCO. After becoming a pilot and a flight instructor I kept working as a freelance for Balair as this enabled me to go once a month in the summer period for few days to Maine, where I started to fly float-planes. Those BGR flights were actually the only once I did as a freelance, apart from some MIA in the winter. After Balair abandoned BGR in 94 I stopped working for them.
Since 97 I am using BGR pretty much for all my North Atlantic flights as the Port of Entry to the US as I love it up there, but I also do honor the efficient, courteous and professional service of all the BGR staff, as Customs, Immigration, Handling, Ramp or Catering. They all do a great job and do deserve more traffic. I would wish JFK or PHL staff would only be half as good as the guys in BGR are...
Apart from that I spent several vacations up in Maine and do return there pretty much every year for private purposes. I can understand all of you, wishing to go back there if they had a job..... so would I if I was US citizen, living in the US.
Hoping all the best and keeping my fingers crossed,
Nkops From United States, joined Jun 2005, 1646 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 545 times:
I know when I worked for Precision/Northeast Expres back in the early 90's.. we had a decent amount of flights into and out of BGR (NW Airlink at the time) using SWM and D28... and later a few DH-8's.... but then we went Ch.7 and that went by the wayside.
New Jersey- We corrupt more politicians by 9am then most states do all day!!
Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1217 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 452 times:
It's good that charter aircraft can make it all the way from Florida to Europe without stopping, basically cos it's more convenient. Pax always hated having to stop and refuel, esp as it was normally in the middle of the night.
I passed through BGR on a charter back in the 80's and the fact I was carrying a packet of Asprin brought in Turkey and written in a foreign language caused them to panic and get out the sniffer dogs.
So not the most enlightened place to clear customs.
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2670 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 440 times:
Almost without fail, the people up in Bangor are lauded by the crews and passengers who fly through there. Whether it's the occasional tech stops by legacy carriers (Delta, Continental, et al) or the almost-routine parade of MD-11s, 757s, and DC-10s carrying troops, the people who service the planes and the people on them are always regarded as top-notch. Word gets around.
My folks live on the coast in K'port and I live in southern NH...still way too far south to make any sort of 'leisure' drive up to BGR to see the action. But aside from Logan, BGR probably has the most eclectic mix of planes passing through. Unfortunately, at least half the time these operations happen in the middle of the night.
One of the more common visitors to Bangor is the Antonov 124, which is Eastern Europe's answer to our C-5 Galaxy. Routine shipments of military hardware transit from Charleston, SC over to Europe via Bangor.
As for scheduled passenger service, the comments are correct: Maine is a poor state and Bangor is just too far north of the majority of the state's population to be anything more than it is. The Catch-22 is that air fares need to be exceedingly high to cover costs, and you simply won't find enough people in those upper reaches of the state who will part with those kind of dollars. Driving all the way down to PWM (or further, to BOS or MHT) to get more affordable fares and better flight options is the way most are going. Indeed, the best success anyone could have is operating a frequent bus service between Bangor and the Portland Jetport.
C150Driver From Djibouti, joined May 2008, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 319 times:
I came through in March on a military charter flight on a World Dc-10 and the only other aircraft at the airport at the time was a Omni Dc-10 pushing back. However, the Maine troop greeters and the VFW guys were beyond amazing. Having them there to cheer and wish us luck and shake our hands was something I will never forget...words cant descirbe it. One question for you Maine guys is how does the hotel that is attached to the airport do? The place was a ghost town when we came through and it was like 5 or 6 in the evening on a saturday night.
ChrisNH From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2670 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 298 times:
Quoting C150Driver (Reply 16): I came through in March on a military charter flight on a World Dc-10 and the only other aircraft at the airport at the time was a Omni Dc-10 pushing back. However, the Maine troop greeters and the VFW guys were beyond amazing. Having them there to cheer and wish us luck and shake our hands was something I will never forget...words cant descirbe it. One question for you Maine guys is how does the hotel that is attached to the airport do? The place was a ghost town when we came through and it was like 5 or 6 in the evening on a saturday night.
It's people like you that make residents WANT to be there to greet the troops. If I lived up there--or anywhere near--I would be part of that welcoming team whenever called upon. So what if it's 2 in the morning. You guys in the military don't know 'normal' when it comes to the clock, so the people who greeted you were very happy to do so. You guys are great.
If the military charters passed through Pease (Portsmouth, NH) instead, I would certainly be part of the 'Team.'
I recall a year or two ago a big fuss was made over the welcoming committee people at Bangor being made to STOP making brownies, cookies, and other goodies. That really frosted me, let me tell you. All sorts of 'other' reasons were given, but it was clear that the driving force behind the ban were the concessions at BGR who were losing business because of the freebies. You know the drill, when the movie theater tells you that no outside food is allowed because of 'safety' reasons. A crock, and easily transparent.
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Sorry my mistake, sure you're correct. It was UA and not UL, going to ORD what will then indeed work with the 721