BP1 From United States, joined Aug 2007, 372 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1890 times:
It is no secret that AA launched the 767 from JFK to STN to directly take aim at Eos. So the 2 questions are this:
1. What are the loads on AA between JFK and STN like in Business Class?
2. If Eos pulls out of STN will American Airlines terminate service within a week or a month?
I want Eos to make it, the concept it great and hope they will be the one left standing after this fuel mess, bankruptcy, shut down and consolidating mess is over.
Cheers,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
Commavia From United States, joined Apr 2005, 6254 posts, RR: 46 Reply 1, posted (8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1886 times:
Anecdotal, I know, but from what I've heard, AA has actually been doing quite well on the JFK-STN route - particularly in J, and particularly with cargo. I've heard that the loads and yields in Y have been a bit weaker (although not horrible by any means), but the real performer has been the J cabin - which has been very popular with the business types heading to the City via the Stansted Express - and cargo which, from what I've heard, has been surprisingly quite strong.
Remember: the route is supported by AA's longstanding and strong presence in the New York-London corporate market. Much of that traffic is heading to the City, and thus at least some is willing to go to Stansted.
BP1 From United States, joined Aug 2007, 372 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1867 times:
But is the American J class at 2 for 1 or is it buy a full fare Y and get upgraded to J, or is it deeply discounted J with 50,000 advantage bonus miles on top of that? There is a cost and I suppose I should have asked about the corporate discounting, net/net deals, upgrade deals, market share deals and the like. Although 50,000 advantage miles might be cheap for AA at first, it eventually will have to pay something for when the miles are cashed in especially if it is on a OneWorld member airline.
Thanks,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
Commavia From United States, joined Apr 2005, 6254 posts, RR: 46 Reply 3, posted (8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1837 times:
Quoting BP1 (Reply 2): But is the American J class at 2 for 1 or is it buy a full fare Y and get upgraded to J, or is it deeply discounted J with 50,000 advantage bonus miles on top of that? There is a cost and I suppose I should have asked about the corporate discounting, net/net deals, upgrade deals, market share deals and the like. Although 50,000 advantage miles might be cheap for AA at first, it eventually will have to pay something for when the miles are cashed in especially if it is on a OneWorld member airline.
Absolutely, I can't speak from personal experience about the yields of these flights. You are, of course, right: full planes does not necessarily equal profit.
Nonetheless - again, anecdotally - from what I have heard, the yields have indeed been fairly strong in J on this route, and the revenue/yields on the cargo have been very strong.
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 737 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1725 times:
Quoting BP1 (Thread starter): 2. If Eos pulls out of STN will American Airlines terminate service within a week or a month?
That's what most think here. But things can go the other way round.
If Eos pulls out, then 48 Biz seats will go missing and their passengers will switch to AA if STN can attract that many people. Also bear in mind that AA has reduced 1x LHR-JFK (and got two other pairs) to accomodate the new DFW/RDU services and will drop LGW. I don't think they want to make that capacity disappear.
San747 From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3246 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1670 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Nonetheless - again, anecdotally - from what I have heard, the yields have indeed been fairly strong in J on this route, and the revenue/yields on the cargo have been very strong.
Out of curiousity, I've always heard that AA A300 has immensely superior cargo capacity compared to their 763s, and that is basically the only reason they're still around. My question is, if JFK-STN is a cargo-heavy route, would AA ever consider putting the A300 on the route for cargo's sake?
Commavia From United States, joined Apr 2005, 6254 posts, RR: 46 Reply 6, posted (8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1604 times:
Quoting San747 (Reply 5): I've always heard that AA A300 has immensely superior cargo capacity compared to their 763s, and that is basically the only reason they're still around.
It's true.
The A300s are superb cargo-haulers, which makes them perfect for AA's baggage/cargo/freight-intensive routes to Latin America and the Caribbean.
Quoting San747 (Reply 5): My question is, if JFK-STN is a cargo-heavy route, would AA ever consider putting the A300 on the route for cargo's sake?
Never.
AA's A300s would never fit on the route - the premium cabin is way too small, the Coach cabin is way too big, and AA is no longer flying A300s anywhere outside of Latin America.
AA's A300s would never fit on the route - the premium cabin is way too small, the Coach cabin is way too big, and AA is no longer flying A300s anywhere outside of Latin America.
Jacobin777 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 13099 posts, RR: 57 Reply 8, posted (8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
I flew LHR-JFK a few weeks ago and I was actually planning on flying STN-JFK.
I've heard the flight does well, in fact, the person sitting next to me told me the flight was sold out so she decided to take the LHR-JFK flight instead.
Alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 971 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1185 times:
Quoting San747 (Reply 7):
AA's A300s would never fit on the route - the premium cabin is way too small, the Coach cabin is way too big, and AA is no longer flying A300s anywhere outside of Latin America.
That's what I figured. It was worth asking.
If AA felt like adding a new type, A332s would be great replacements for A300s on flights to Europe - could have a bigger Business Class, and more Freight.
AA did operate STN-ORD some years ago. Will JFK be their only US city out of STN. Restart ORD?
If BA starts their A318 service between NY and London City Airport, that would carry some of AA's Business traffic into STN, if BA gives AA FF points.
Commavia From United States, joined Apr 2005, 6254 posts, RR: 46 Reply 11, posted (8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1131 times:
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 10): If AA felt like adding a new type, A332s would be great replacements for A300s on flights to Europe - could have a bigger Business Class, and more Freight.
AA doesn't fly A300s to Europe anymore - they haven't for about five years. Now its all 767-300ERs and 777s.
And those 767s, while getting long in the tooth, and 777s, to Europe aren't generally the issue in terms of reliability, and the added cargo capacity of an A300 or A330 isn't as necessary to Europe as it is to Latin America.
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 10): AA did operate STN-ORD some years ago. Will JFK be their only US city out of STN. Restart ORD?
ORD won't be coming back. JFK-STN is a niche route designed to serve a very specific targeted market and backfill capacity in the New York-London market that was lost when AA sacrificed one of their six daily JFK-LHR flights in order to make room for new DFW-London and Raleigh-London flights.
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 10): If BA starts their A318 service between NY and London City Airport, that would carry some of AA's Business traffic into STN, if BA gives AA FF points.
At the moment, American Airlines AAdvantage members can not earn nor redeem miles on British Airways flights between London and the United States. The same is true in return for British Airways Executive Club members on American's flights between London and the United States.
Regardless, BA's City-New York flights will likely pull some people off the American flights out of Stansted, and if AA and BA get antitrust immunity and their frequent fliers get the ability to earn and burn, this will only accelerate.
Ultimately: the present plan is for AA to add the second 767 JFK-STN on 1 August (it was originally supposed to start in April, but has been delayed due to pilot shortages). However, within a few years, if the AA-BA alliance deepens and BA is able to make inroads with their LCY-JFK flights, I think that will probably go back down to 1 daily 767.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7029 posts, RR: 44 Reply 12, posted (8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1126 times:
Legacy carriers like BA and (until recently) AA are crazy to ignore STN. The corporate, business end of London is in the east of the city - Square Mile (where apparently 25% of the UK's tax revenue is generated) and Canary Wharf. What visitors think of as the centre of town - around Picadilly Circus, eg Soho, Oxford St etc - is mostly museums, theatres and restaurants. West of there is nothing but residential. LHR was always coveted by airlines because of it's connectivity (still true) and cos it was closer to town than Gatwick. But with STN rocking, I'm surprised LHR has maintained it's premier-division status, cos I live right next to the Square Mile and LHR seems like a long way to go - there's a lot of London between you and it. (I am counting the days til BA start their LCY-JFK btw.) I'm not surprised Eos are adding frequencies and I think AA will stay, and indeed grow, at STN. It even offers incredible connectivity if you don't mind interlining onto an LCC - Ryanair and easyJet at STN must surely offer a comparable, indeed superior, range of onward destinations from STN compared to what's on offer at LHR.
(That said, security at STN is a horrific nightmare - those lines fill me with dispair, just the idea of it is bad.)
Yes! Senator Obama. We are ready to believe again.
Alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 971 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1079 times:
Fantasy only - AA could set up an American Eagle carrier at STN. Since LHR is still the most trying airport in Europe, how many people would transfer from an AA flight from America onto a BA Europe flight there, when transfers are available at Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt on other alliance networks? When the T5 problems are solved, BA to BA transfers will be improved, but I think transfering from OneWorld partners to BA will not be much better.
If it works for Aer Lingus and JetBlue to have a Legacy-LCC partnership at JFK, it could work for AA and a LCC at STN to have a similar arrangement. Legacy carriers can issue travel on LCCs, so it will be just as seamless as working with another legacy carrier.
It would mean some changes for the LCC - accept bags for the through journey etc, and the transit experience at STN would have to be improved, but the increased revenue would make it worthwhile.
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 737 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1015 times:
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 13): When the T5 problems are solved, BA to BA transfers will be improved, but I think transfering from OneWorld partners to BA will not be much better.
Well, better than a month ago or today for sure. Now oneworlders are spread all over the airport.
Some BA destinations will be at T3 along with the other oneworlders: MAD BCN HEL LIS NCE SIN BKK and SYD so connecting from these services to oneworld carriers won't require change of terminal. Also the reduction to just two terminals means a better point to point service for connections between two terminals than among 4 (5) terminals.
In 2012 there will be a baggage link between T3 and T5 so (and I know how "baggage" and "LHR" should work in a sentence) transfers could improve.
Tommy777 From Norway, joined May 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 986 times:
Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12): Legacy carriers like BA and (until recently) AA are crazy to ignore STN. The corporate, business end of London is in the east of the city - Square Mile (where apparently 25% of the UK's tax revenue is generated) and Canary Wharf.
Yeah, crazy enough to start an all business class route from LCY to NYC, not the Ryanair pit at STN. Face it, the only reason Eos and others fly in to STN is because they can't get/afford slots at LHR
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4007 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 662 times:
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 13): If it works for Aer Lingus and JetBlue to have a Legacy-LCC partnership at JFK, it could work for AA and a LCC at STN to have a similar arrangement
Easyjet and Ryanair would never do that. Maybe AB, and possibly Norweigan, but other than that there are no other LoCo's with more than just a couple of daily STN flights
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