SXDFC From United States, joined Dec 2007, 527 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7723 times:
As many of you have seen, there have been threads about aviation in certain parts of the world, and hey why not Greece? There is certainly alot going on in there right now- heres whats in the news:
- OA liquidation
- A3 A320 Deliveries? / Options?
- Who will Take over Olympic?
- Any thoughts of OA and what needs to be done..
Feel free to add more topics news and what ever else needs to be added =]
This is my first time doing a big thread like this so once again sorry if I missed all the main points lol
Also however I'd love to know if anyone has access to the paint schedules for the A340s- Hopefully they stay in the blue stripe scheme.
KLM-MD11 From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 455 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7711 times:
ok, here's a first:
When will Ryanair start flying to Greece, and which airports/routes?
2nd: why are the Greeks so behind in airport information? with that I mean that the only airport that has live flight arrivals/departures is Athens, from all other 30-ish airports one can only guess...
oh, and a 3rd: why are domestic flights soooooooooo expensive, compared to low-cost flights within Europe... It's usually cheaper to fly from SKG to western Europe than to ATH!!
Some company having money right now, I guess . There are (and have been) several takeover candidates in Europe; some of the in distress; the most prominent being AZ. MA was in this situation for a very long time and was acquired by a russian company; rumors are that some russian investors have interest in AZ. I guess this would be the most probable takeover solution for Olympic.
Other solutions? Let's guess, who's on shopping tour right now? Comapnies from the United States operate in Europe mostly via alliances (DL, CO, NW Skyteam, US and UA (and maybe Jetblue) in Star, AA Oneworld) and except CO and WN none of them lies on a big pillar of cash. Their main focus in Europe right now is to offer more point to point services from the US and not to acquire a company extending their network into Europe. So, in my opinion, no chance from here.
Big European carriers (BA,LH,AF/KL,IB): what would be the added value if they would acquire Olympic? I don't think that Olympic would fit into their portfolio very well (except maybe for IB, but IB's focus is LatAm), so no big chance here either.
Carrieres from the Middle East? They have the cash, maybe they need a subsidiary in Europe. If they do it, this would be rather long term. They rather connect more European cities from thir hubs in the Middle East. Olympic would only make sense for them as a feeder, maybe to compete with European Carriers on the Eastern Europe- Asia routes, where the demand is increasing and most connections are offered via a Western Europre hub.
Asian carriers (including China)? Again maybe, for the same reason as Middle Eastern Carriers.
Don't hang me for that: I know you won't like it and it's hardly possible because of politics. Maybe TK would be interested in Olympic, they could serve Greece very welll from ther hub in Istanbul (Constantinople ) but it's political a minefield.
And , don't forget, even if the thread is long it's only my 2 cents
B747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 9556 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Quoting KLM-MD11 (Reply 1): When will Ryanair start flying to Greece, and which airports/routes?
Maybe the Greece market doesnt fit FR??? They have not started any route to/from Greece in the past when they have expand all over Europe. Think it will take a while until we see FR in Greece.
TK787 From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1471 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
Quoting Steph001 (Reply 2): Maybe TK would be interested in Olympic
Quoting Steph001 (Reply 2): Big European carriers (BA,LH,AF/KL,IB): what would be the added value if they would acquire Olympic?
I don't think TK has the money, interest, know-how to do that. TK has the potential to run two or more hubs inside Turkey (AYT, ESB, ADB) and still can't do that, why should they be interested in OA?
I like the latest solution to keep OA smaller, mostly domestic and a few high yielding int. routes and see how things go from there, with a more efficient management and better labor relations.
SXDFC From United States, joined Dec 2007, 527 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7640 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 4): I don't think TK has the money, interest, know-how to do that. TK has the potential to run two or more hubs inside Turkey (AYT, ESB, ADB) and still can't do that, why should they be interested in OA?
I like the latest solution to keep OA smaller, mostly domestic and a few high yielding int. routes and see how things go from there, with a more efficient management and better labor relations.
TK787
I still think though the A340s should stay, after all the government still owns them and they do make good $$ especially in the summer when they are full to the brim on the JFK-ATH routes. IMHO the absence of the 340 would be a mistake unless they will take a few A330s? but thats just my two cents. Also if they dispose the A340s then there goes my user name =.(
LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 7883 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7640 times:
Only thing TK could be interested in is OA's A340 fleet which technically dont belong to OA anyways, but instead by the state of Greece whom are guarantors of the debt on the planes.
I know the Greek government shopped a pair of the birds around in 2003'ish however obviously the global airline industry was not too interested at the time. They might receive a slightly better reception today.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TK787 From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1471 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7617 times:
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 5): I still think though the A340s should stay
I agree. Whatever is paid for should stay. When the day comes it might be replaced by 350s. Like I said keep those to high yielding intl. routes, and slowly modernize the single aisle fleet, E-jets maybe?
Steph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7568 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 4): I don't think TK has the money, interest, know-how to do that. TK has the potential to run two or more hubs inside Turkey (AYT, ESB, ADB) and still can't do that, why should they be interested in OA?
There is a rapidly growing market between Eastern Europe (the "new" EU members) and Asia. This market is served now mainly by carriers from Western Europe. This is quite inconvenient, because it adds a lot of flying time. Direct connections were not always profitable, as the national carriers of these countries had no local partners to extend their network. Therefore, I think, there is a market niche for a carrier gathering perople from all over Eastern Europe to a hub in SothEastern Europe or the Middle East an offer them through this hub connections to Asia. TK advertised lately in the German Press, focusing also on its Asian connection; that's why I thought they might be interested to team up with Olympic and offer the service from Eastern Europe to Asia via IST or ATH.
I'm still wondering whether there is no interest from the Gulf States to acquire Olympic to (partly) feed their network to Asia and Australia. I don't know whether Olympic still flies to SYD, but I'm pretty sure there is a big greek comunity in Australia and they might be interested in one-hop services to Greece via e.g. Dubai. In such a scenario, the longhaul aircraft that Olympic has would fly on ATH-United States and ATH-Canada, as well as on very busy European routes. Olympic's European network will partly be used for traffic to ATH, as well as for traffic from Eastern Europe to Dubai.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 8900 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7544 times:
Quoting Steph001 (Reply 2): Don't hang me for that: I know you won't like it and it's hardly possible because of politics. Maybe TK would be interested in Olympic, they could serve Greece very welll from ther hub in Istanbul (Constantinople ) but it's political a minefield.
I would prefer TK taking over OA than say LH or another western European carrier. The best option would be QR !!!
I hope they never land in Greece !!! We need top quality airlines and good connections, not point to point carriers.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 4): I like the latest solution to keep OA smaller, mostly domestic and a few high yielding int. routes and see how things go from there, with a more efficient management and better labor relations.
This does seem to be the ONLY way out. This also makes sense and is what is being pushed for at all levels. Domestic routes need to be guranteed and keep the international routes that do make money and fly the A340's on them. Namely CDG LHR FRA .....JFK also.
Olympic707 From United States, joined Dec 2004, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7530 times:
Quoting Steph001 (Reply 2): Don't hang me for that: I know you won't like it and it's hardly possible because of politics. Maybe TK would be interested in Olympic, they could serve Greece very welll from ther hub in Istanbul (Constantinople ) but it's political a minefield.
No, not a good idea. I don't think that will ever happen.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 9): This does seem to be the ONLY way out. This also makes sense and is what is being pushed for at all levels. Domestic routes need to be guranteed and keep the international routes that do make money and fly the A340's on them. Namely CDG LHR FRA .....JFK also.
Eventually, after OA gets back on it's feet and making money it would be a good idea to expand.
CY319 From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 360 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7479 times:
Quoting KLM-MD11 (Reply 1): When will Ryanair start flying to Greece, and which airports/routes?
Actually I m surprised they have launched any routes already from their German and Italian bases which arent that faaar from Greece compared to the UK/DUB bases.
Potential destinations could be SKG and the Ionian islands (ie CFU,ZTH)...as they are located closer to western Europe than the rest of major Greek airports.
Quoting KLM-MD11 (Reply 1): why are the Greeks so behind in airport information
GR has one of the lowest 'internet penetration' rates in Europe. In general, Greeks arent that e-educated and e-experienced. Internet usage is limited and basic. Still, Greeks arent used to the idea of looking or booking flights over the internet.
Quoting KLM-MD11 (Reply 1): why are domestic flights soooooooooo expensive,
Because of the existing duopoly of OA and A3.
Quoting SXDFC (Thread starter): Any thoughts of OA and what needs to be done..
- I doubt it will ever be privatised correctly or successfully.
- fleet renewal is necessary especially for the ageing 734s. Also, a few 330s to support long-haul expansion would be great. The launch of long-haul high-yield routes (ie HKG,ICN,NRT), short-haul network restructuring and the abolition of non-profitable domestic routes could help improve the financial situation of the company.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 8900 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7440 times:
Quoting CY319 (Reply 12): non-profitable domestic routes could help improve the financial situation of the company.
You do know that even though certain domestic routes are non profitable that the EU allows aid from the Greek government to keep these VITAL links with the mainland??? This is the only way to get supplies to the islands especially in wintertime when the bad weather stops all ferries. Domestic routes must be maintained and will be maintained, that has already been guranteed by the Greek government and the EU !!!!
CY319 From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 360 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7423 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 14): You do know that even though certain domestic routes are non profitable that the EU allows aid from the Greek government to keep these VITAL links with the mainland???
R u kidding me? Being in a possession of an MSc in Airline Management does allow me to know that.
However, my opinion is that small regional A/C that would be deployed in those routes for 'social&political' reasons rather got deployed in high-trunk domestic routes or niche good-yield regional int/nal routes which would bring more cash to the company.
747Dreamlifter From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7384 times:
Quoting OA260 (Reply 14): Domestic routes must be maintained and will be maintained, that has already been guranteed by the Greek government and the EU
This is probably the reason Ryanair has yet to serve Greece. As reported in Air Wise, Ryanair is sueing the EU and accusing the Greek Government of illegally subsidizing Olympic Airways. Seems that Olympic is having a tough time right now, and is desperate to find some infusion of money or a buyer. It would be sad to see the OLYMPIC logo disappear.
Olympic707 From United States, joined Dec 2004, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7355 times:
Quoting CY319 (Reply 12): GR has one of the lowest 'internet penetration' rates in Europe. In general, Greeks arent that e-educated and e-experienced. Internet usage is limited and basic. Still, Greeks arent used to the idea of looking or booking flights over the internet.
No joke! Most (older) people don't know what internet is. I always travel to Greece with my iBook, never get online.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 13): True, they will just destroy the Greece air travel. Bett
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From United States, joined Dec 2007, 527 posts, 
From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 455 posts, 
From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 311 posts, 
. There are (and have been) several takeover candidates in Europe; some of the in distress; the most prominent being AZ. MA was in this situation for a very long time and was acquired by a russian company; rumors are that some russian investors have interest in AZ. I guess this would be the most probable takeover solution for Olympic.
Don't hang me for that: I know you won't like it and it's hardly possible because of politics. Maybe TK would be interested in Olympic, they could serve Greece very welll from ther hub in Istanbul (Constantinople 
From Sweden, joined May 2007, 9556 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 8900 posts, 
No, not a good idea. I don't think that will ever happen. 
From , joined today!, posts, 
No joke! Most (older) people don't know what internet is. 
I always travel to Greece with my iBook, never get online.