Boeing757/767 From United States, joined Jun 1999, 2207 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5075 times:
As a follow-up to another thread about Independence Air frequencies into busy airports that can be hell during weather delays, here's a piece in today's Washington Post:
Fliers Trapped On Tarmac Have Little Recourse – Washington Post
By Keith L. Alexander
Tuesday, July 13, 2004; Page E01
After sitting on the tarmac for five hours waiting to take off, the passengers on Independence Air Flight 1128 felt anything but independent.
The flight was supposed to take off from Boston's Logan International Airport at 1:15 p.m. Wednesday. But because of yet another harsh stream of thunderstorms blowing into the Washington area, Dulles International Airport was not accepting incoming flights.
So the passengers sat on the 50-seat plane on the tarmac with little air conditioning for nearly four hours. The aircraft finally returned to the gate at 5 p.m. Twenty-five minutes later, passengers were ordered to quickly get back on board. The plane made its way down the runway, only to sit again, for another hour.
The plane finally took off from Boston at 6:40 p.m. and arrived at Dulles at 8:50, nearly eight hours after scheduled departure. It was just about the same amount of time it would have taken the passengers to drive.
"We felt a little captive on there and people were getting angrier and angrier each moment," said passenger Maryanne Hellender of Potomac. "If we had been on there any longer, it would have been mutiny on Independence Airlines."
Smcmac32msn From United States, joined May 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4847 times:
Guess they should just learn to drive next time. Atleast you can't be forced into a steel tube for 5 hours with 49 other people you don't know. You can actually be headed for the destination the whole time too!
If the world is crashing.... what are we crashing into?!?!
ERJ170 From United States, joined Apr 2004, 5489 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4795 times:
Oh.. my worst experience was on CO in EWR...
We pulled out from the gate and sat outside the gate for an hour.. then we taxied to the edge of the apron and held for an hour.. then we taxied to the waiting area.. and held for an hour.. then we were told that the airways were cleared up and that were were number #39 in line... it was a 5.5 hour delay.. I WAS FURIOUS! And all we got was some room temp cups of water.. no nothing like IDE gave their passengers..
I have tried to avoid EWR every since that experience...
Smcmac32msn From United States, joined May 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4627 times:
I've gotta agree on Yyz717 here... I'm sure there are restaurants near the gate along with bathrooms, so why not let everybody wait in that area until they have clearance... I understand that they need the gate space, but lets be logical about it..... ITS DURING A FREAKIN' STORM, IF YOUR NOT LEAVIN, THEY AIN'T COMING IN EITHER!
If the world is crashing.... what are we crashing into?!?!
MIASkies From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4607 times:
Reminds me of being stuck on an American Airlines B763ER on the runway for 2 hours during a blizzard in Paris two years ago! The NYC B763ER of AA was stuck out there for 4 hours!
Dexter From Austria, joined Jul 2000, 260 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
This is shocking! I had to sit in planes on the ground for up to 1 hour a few times and most people around did get pretty annoyed. But 5 hours.. In a CRJ?!
I'm sure it was unintentional, though. The crew was probably expecting to depart any minute and didn't want to lose a slot because of taxiing from the terminal. On the other hand, if you had those people sitting there for over an hour, just let them get off, who cares about a/c utilization.
Jfklganyc From United States, joined Jan 2004, 1030 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4475 times:
It was Northwest Airlines in DTW. There was a big blizzard and nobody was able to clear the area. Passengers sat on that now famous flight for seven hours. It led to the "Passenger Bill of Rights" that was passed by Congress shortly thereafter.
As for not letting the passengers out--it's a complicated process. The pilots don't really know how long the delay will be. Yes, ATC does give a call back time but it's usually within an hour. Then they delay it further when the flight does call back. The process is very cumbersome especially in the NE U.S.
Veeref From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4455 times:
Unfortunately this paticular scenario is exactly the no win situation that can occur when weather interrupts airline service. Speaking from many experiences at La Guardia I am usually faced with two options, neither of which are good. If I've been sitting in line for an hour or so and I decide to take the aircraft back to the gate, contrary to popular belief they do not hold your place in line, you then start ALL OVER again at the back of the line, If you can even push off the gate. Also when you are sitting in line ATC plans on you being airborne in a certain sequence. Returning to the gate means you lose your "slot" and in extreme cases you don't get out at all.
Sometimes by the time you decide to return to the gate, quite often there are no gates to return to.
Airplanes are not designed to hold for hours on the ground. More powerful air conditioning units add weight and costs more. I deal with this every single day on the aircraft I fly. An aircraft that keep it's full load of occupants perfectly comfortable for hours on the ground right now doesn't exist.
Don't forget years ago airliners didn't have air conditioning to speak of and were probably just as hot and unpressurized, not to mention rough due to flying through the lower altitudes. AND it even adjusted for inflation, was more expensive.
Also do people really think that driving down I-95 from BOS to IAD during inclement weather is only going to take 8 hours? Try it sometime!
Am I defending the airline industry? No. It's a mess. But it is a fact of life these days if you travel. And it's not unique to any airline. This time it was Independence, next week it'll be AA then CO yadda yadda yadda.
UA777222 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2829 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4416 times:
What can the airline do? This is a constant issue at IAD. Be it a 744 or CRJ they still would have had to wait. I'm just surprised that they didn't have to return for fuel sooner.
Bostonguy From United States, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4370 times:
Not much you can do in a situation like this except pretend you're in the air. There are so many variables that can contribute to a situation such as this that it's hard to pin it on incompetence in Independence Air's part. Still, 5 hours in a CRJ is a pretty long time!
The only time I was stuck on an aircraft this long on the ground was a Delta flight from ATL to BOS. Moments after pushback from our gate (our space at the gate was promptly taken by an arriving flight) in ATL a ValueJet DC9 had an engine explode at the beginning of takeoff. The aircraft burst into flames (all passengers seemed to have escaped through emergency exits) and everything ground to a halt in ATL.
Had dinner on the aircraft stuck between concourses. Watched the movie after dinner and still stuck between concourses. It wasn't until we finally got to an alternate runway for takeoff hours later that we could see the ValueJet aircraft burnt to a crisp with emergency exit slides hanging out. At that point the pilot announced what had happened that caused the delay.
Considering we sat there for 4 hours things were relatively calm onboard.
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1507 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4323 times:
There was a Jetsgo plane @ YYZ back in the winter who was flying YYZ- Cuba (airport escapes me) and they were on board for *5* hours while the Jetsgo staff tried to fix a computer problem with the computers/program that issue weights/etc.
The pilot was BEGGING the dispatch staff to allow him to manually calculate the figures, since "that is one of the primary duties I'm required to know". They refused him. The passengers were hungry, thirsty, and for some reason, they would NOT let the passengers disembark.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57 Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
The I-Air story is one of those horror stories that simply happen from time to time......although keeping pax on an aircraft for 5 hours is very out of the ordinary and extreme. The captain of the aircraft was probably hoping ( or was so advised) that the weather would clear shortly and operations/ground control said not to return to the gate as clearance would be granted shortly.....he or she was in a no-win situation: waiting was uncomfortable and returing to the gate would bring other problems. Weather situations are so difficult, no one can be sure exactly what will happen.
Being that a new carrier like I-Air was involved, the situation became a media event. The entire episode is unfortunate.
Hz747300 From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Mar 2004, 1418 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4215 times:
I would have rebelled if I were a passenger on that flight. I would have opened the the little door in the middle of the plane and sat on the wing to have a smoke.
Pitrules From United States, joined Jun 2000, 856 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4099 times:
If you read the article carefully, you can see that the longest they were on the airplane at any one time was 3:45, not 5 hours. No doubt 3:45 for this flight is way too long. But sometimes even when a crew wants to return to the gate it's very hard because of other planes in the same situation blocking the taxiways. We don't know what the case was.
One of the things that we want to do at Independence Air is be straight forward with the passengers and keep them informed. Unfortunately, this article does not give details about how the crew handled this bad situation.
For what it's worth, senior mgt emailed all the passengers of this flight, with their cell phone numbers, asking the passengers to call back if they wanted. Several did, and they said the flight attendant was awesome.
Flairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4063 times:
the volumeof aircraft also sometimes effects the planes (although not in this case)...
I was on a DL flight from LGA-ATL and we were stuck for about 1 hour...they decided to show a movie (Bridges of Madison County) and it was almost done by the time the flight left. It as nice of DL to do this (before 9/11) as there was no movie in flight. It also calmed the passengers nerves as well. If I was in the same situation now, DL would probably not show a movie or at leat charge the $2for headphones!
I would have just canceled the flight and then cancel an outbound to make up for an extra plane in BOS. Simple sulution, but not always the best, I know! I bet the passengers would have taken it better than 3-5 hours on a CRJ!
Hannigan From United States, joined Mar 2004, 320 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3979 times:
Let me point out, that even tho this can be considered a weather delay, DH gave each passenger on this flight MORE than $500 travel credit with Independence Air. For this airline, that is easily more than a couple roundtrips per person. The new policy is that if a plane is holding for more than 2 hours on the ground, they have to return to the gate.
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