Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13401 posts, RR: 18 Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1352 times:
China has granted Singapore Airlines Cargo fifth freedom rights - the first time it has done so for a foreign airline.
Singapore Airlines Cargo will operate flights from Singapore to Xiamen to Nanjing to Chicago.
"This will be the first time the Chinese mainland has granted fifth freedom rights to a foreign air carrier," Ma Songwei of the General Administration of Civil Aviation of China said.
"It is necessary to grant fifth freedom rights to foreign air carriers if China wants to enhance its competitive advantage as a regional hub," he said.
Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked webpage. Full information can be viewed by clicking the above hyperlinked webpage. nformation was rephrased and not copied and pasted unlike others with the exception of quotes.
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 520 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1326 times:
Don't UA and NW enjoy fifth freedom rights between China and Tokyo Narita, and have for some time now?
Others like Iran Air have similar rights btwn Beijing and Narita, while Ethiopian btwn Beijing and Mumbai?
Docpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1645 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
If they could grant fifth freedom rights for passenger flights it would be good.
It could be argued that SQ doesn't "deserve" to be as big as it is to the USA and the only reason it is, is cos of the fifth freedom rights, which in this case are to SQ's advantage since it's been (so far) impossible to get to continental USA without an intermediate stop, from Singapore.
How would a tiny country of 4 million people, which is as far from the USA one could get, support 45 wide-bodied aircraft services to the USA a week?
If they had to depend on SIN-USA traffic alone, I doubt they'd see half the number of (very lucky and privileged, of course, right Singapore_Air?? ) passengers they carry to the USA.
Singapore_Air, are you throwing a gala ball in honour of SIA, as a reuslt?? Don't forget to invite us!
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13401 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1130 times:
N754PR, if you have nothing useful to say then don't say it and hence make me write a rebuttal.
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13401 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1107 times:
Singapore Airlines Cargo Limited has wanted to start the flights from Singapore to Xiamen to Nanjing to Chicago on 1 April 2003. However, because of the Iraq war, this has been put back to 22 May 2003.
Notably, Singapore and China have signed a new air services agreement in late 2002, potentially allowing Singapore Airlines Group to fly in and out of more cities in China - using and applying for more fifth freedom rights.
Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked webpage. Full information can be viewed by clicking the above hyperlinked webpage. nformation was rephrased and not copied and pasted unlike others with the exception of quotes.
Ex_SQer From United States, joined Apr 2002, 1399 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
N79969:
Doesn't an airline need fifth freedom rights from both countries in question before it can enjoy those rights? IN the case of UA and NW, China and Japan must have given them those rights...
Nickofatlanta From United Kingdom, joined May 2000, 1187 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 994 times:
Both countries need to agree to offer an airline 5th freedom rights. For example, SQ wants to fly from LHR to the USA (probably JFK). The US Gov't has OK'd the request whilst the UK Gov't has not. This makes it a no-go.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 976 times:
Ex-Sq'er
I do not think China has granted US carriers fifth freedom rights. I don't think UA and NW can sell travel to Japan from China though the flights may stop there. I think passengers originating in China must be traveling to the US to the best of my knowledge. Frankly, I am not 100% sure about what NWA and UA can sell to Chinese pax and shippers. But given the hype surrounding the latest announcement, I think I am correct.
This is a good basic explanation of the Chicago Convention.
BBD From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 968 times:
First Freedom.
The right to fly from a home country over another country (A) en-route to another (B) without landing. Also called the transit freedom.
Second Freedom.
The right for a flight from a home country to land in another country (A) for purposes other than carrying passengers, such as refuelling, maintenance or emergencies. The final destination is country B.
Third Freedom.
The right to carry passengers from a home country to another country (A) for purpose of commercial services.
Fourth Freedom.
The right to fly from another country (A) to an home country for purpose of commercial services.
Fifth Freedom.
This freedom enables airlines to carry passengers from a home country to another intermediate country (A), and then fly on to third country (B) with the right to pick passengers in the intermediate country. Also referred to as "beyond right". This freedom divided into two categories: Intermediate Fifth Freedom Type is the right to carry from the third country to second country. Beyond Fifth Freedom Type is the right to carries from second country to the third country.
Sixth Freedom.
It refers to the right to carry passengers between two countries (A and B) through an airport in the home country. With the hubbing function of most air transport networks, this freedom has become more common, notably in Europe (London, Amsterdam).
Seventh Freedom.
Covers the right to operate a passenger services between two countries (A and B) outside the home country.
Eighth Freedom.
Also referred to as "cabotage" privileges. It involves the right to move passengers on a route from a home country to a destination country (A) that uses more than one stop along which passengers may be loaded and unloaded.
Ninth Freedom.
Also referred to as "full cabotage" or "open-skies" privileges. It involves the right of a home country to move passengers within another country (A).
9V-SPK From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 865 times:
People seems to have forgotten that the rights SQ gained is WITHIN China, Xiamen to Nanjing, which is the 1st time a foreign airline can fly with traffic rights (Cargo for this case) WITHIN China. Nothing to do with Japan, Nothing to do with Taiwan, just China.
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 520 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 857 times:
9V-SPK,
If that's what SQ got, then it WOULD be new - and rights gained btwn Xiamen and Nanjing are cabotage. China has offered 5th freedom rights for other airlines for some time.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 817 times:
Airpearl and SPK,
"This will be the first time the Chinese mainland has granted fifth freedom rights to a foreign air carrier," General Administration of Civil Aviation of China spokesman Ma Songwei was quoted as saying."
That's straight from the article. China has not granted fifth freedom rights in the past.
Here is what SQ can do now:
1. Carry cargo from SIN to both Xiamen and Nanjing
2. Carry cargo from ORD to both Xiamen and Nanjing
3. Carry cargo from Xiamen and Nanjing to ORD and SIN
These are all 5th freedom rights
They cannot:
1. Carry cargo from Xiamen to Nanjing
2. Carry cargo from Nanjing to Xiamen
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 520 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 783 times:
N79969,
Well, your information must be better than mine... but how would you explain that both UA and NW seem to be willing to sell you a ticket PEK-NRT on their websites if 5th freedom rights had not been granted?
UA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 756 times:
5th freedom is granted by Japan.
5th freedom means you are allowed to carry passengers from one foriegn country to another foreign country, and back to the originating foreign country, and vice versa. However, the flight still must originate in the home country, which is why the China flights through NRT are continuations of US-NRT flights; 5th freedom allows Japanese and Chinese nationals to purchase tickets solely on the 'continuing legs'.
Verbatim, from my textbook:
"the right of the airline of one country to pick up traffic in the territory of another country and fly that traffic to yet another country"
China has granted US and NW 3rd and 4th freedoms, which allow "the right of the airline of one country to carry traffic from its homeland to the territory of another country", and vice versa.
9V-SPK From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 719 times:
Airpearl,
I made it very very clear already that SQ has gained rights to fly within these 2 Chinese cities located in the PRC, People's Republic Of China. It IS the first time ever that an foreign airline can fly from one destination to another WITHIN China.
China has offered 5th freedom rights for other airlines for some time? Pardon my ignorance but where? Mind pointing it out?
B.T.W Hong Kong and China have 2 different authorities that handle their own aviation manners. So even HKG grants 5th freedom rights to any other airline it's nothing to do with China.
Best Regards
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 520 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 719 times:
UA744Flagship,
Interesting perspective. If China has granted only 3rd and 4th freedom rights ("the right of the airline of one country to carry traffic from its homeland to the territory of another country") to UA and NW, doesn't it mean they would not enjoy rights to carry pax travelling solely on PEK-NRT-PEK sectors.
Also if, as you say, 5th freedom rights were granted only by Japan, a change of routing by a US carrier from the current US-NRT-PEK to US-PEK-NRT would result in it losing the right to carry pax on the NRT-PEK and v.v. segment of their flights?
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